Apps for smart trainer

[Chris1982]

@app4g Yep yep, roger on all!!

Ya, I get you that the app isn’t sending the resistance to the trainer in my case.

But the trainer is saying “ok he is putting out 154 W right now.” Just wanted to ask about any possibility the app would incorrectly “read the signal” or code or whatever and record “ok he is putting out 175 W right now.” at that time.

I really appreciate your info. I’m going to dive fully into BreakAway and save TD only if I find an issue w BA.

Could you let me know the diff btwn Slope and Resist modes? And is the resistance curve linear or exponential on either ?

[app4g]

@Chris1982

Just wanted to ask about any possibility the app would incorrectly “read the signal” or code or whatever and record “ok he is putting out 175 W right now.” at that time

You’re asking possibility, then there’s always going to be possibilities. Same with TD/TR and others.

Slope and Resist mode are the same internally (in BreakAway). We send a Command to the trainer for it to mimic a 2% (or any % that you input) and then the trainer will react accordingly like climbing a hill.

Resistance, in trainer speak, is trainer internally controlled resistance where 100% = max resistance of the trainer capability.

[MedTechCD]

@Chris1982

Just wanted to ask about any possibility the app would incorrectly “read the signal” or code or whatever and record “ok he is putting out 175 W right now.

That’s like saying: “I step on the weight scale, I read 75kg but i note 80Kg in my notebook”. Sounds a bit silly… It’s not the app that reads the sensor, It’s the trainer firmware. And that data stream is forwarded to the app and/or recording device.
So the trainer firmware ‘display’s’ a wattage number and the app takes note of it.
Any inconsistency at this point is normally solely due to the trainer. Depending on type of trainer, like direct-drive or wheel-on, the value can be way off or almost spot-on. But you would only know if you have a trustable device to measure against, like most on-bike Power meters. For your personal training, this is not of much importance because all tough a lot of trainers are not accurate, most of them are consistent and will always show improvement. For comparison with other people, you should only use results from real power meters and even then, it is important to know what type of power meter. Measuring power on the rear wheel hub is not the same as measuring power on the pedals. These are are at the rear or the front of the driving train and can be 15-20W off.

[Chris1982]

Well, I mean, not really, right? Your example of me reading 75 kg and writing 80 in a notebook is actually “a bit silly”.

I understand what you’re saying. Trainer is reading out 172 W, so app is just reading and recording that number.

But that is all code. And there are many, many steps. App to trainer reading / talking to each other, app recording it, storing & saving that number then somewhere within the program, simultaneously displaying that correct number on screen within the app real-time during the workout, then later sending that saved number to .icu for analysis. And this happens over and over for every second of the ride (or whatever the read & record frequency is).

You’re talking about many, possibly dozens of “if ___ = ____ display X
…readout = W re: seconds output” blah blah blah.

If coding was as clean as single step, reading on a scale and writing in a notebook, as in your example, no program would ever malfunction or produce errors! This is why things happen like everything is fine, then Zwift releases a software update, and all of a sudden it can’t see your cadence sensor anymore. [Happens v rarely now…random & unexpected errors more common in the early days….of any program….……hence my asking about it all! ]

I mean, the app designer himself did say just above, that it is “always going to be a possibility”.

Anyhow. Diving in head first, as my only WO app to read my WOs from .icu and send results back.

At this point, I’m extremely optimistic it will go well.

I then plan to cancel TR and be using .icu & BreakAway as my only platform. Think it will work amazing!!!

[Nik_Om_Cinderella_Ri]

The app designer is saying that every software (and that includes the human brain as well) has that possibility. (I bet they’re just saying that like a disclaimer of sorts)

You should get 2 other power meters and do the comparison to give yourself more confidence over the readings. It’s also possible your trainer isn’t accurate / consistent as well.

[Chris1982]

@Nik_Om_Cinderella_Ri LOL yeah, I’ll get right on that.

[Chris1982]

@app4g hey dude ran the first test ride last night. [Outdoor rides w no app & swims & life since we last talked.]

Love the display. Numbers are huge, unlike many others. [Why do they make the readout so hard to see?!? Yours is fantastic!!]

Super easy to see. Calibration in trainer’s app, and BA setup was fast and easy. Think I am going to love it!! But first ride didn’t go right, need your help:

I ran it in Resist mode, a .erg WO file created on .icu

BA is still controlling the target resistance. TR would call this “Erg mode” ; you set it at 175 W, and you just pedal. If you change your cadence from 90 to 100 RPM, BA adjusts, and keeps your output power at 175 W.

I want to be just pedaling, and I am controlling the W I output, with my gears & cadence, or adjusting + / - on the screen, and BA is just recording the power I output. I don’t want BA to keep it “locked” at a target power.

I am sorry; I feel I am not describing this clearly. Have re-written it three times now.

So I went to try it in Slope mode instead, but got an error;

“Workout File Error. For SLOPE Mode, only TCX/FIT/GPX file supported.”

I can get a new file from .icu, but if I want to ride as described above, which of these 3 should I get ?

[app4g]

@Chris1982

I ran it in Resist mode, a .erg WO file created on .icu

Can you show the workout you created? you say a .erg file? In BreakAway, Resist Mode is actually just Slope Mode where we’re sending a Gradient to the Trainer. (i didn’t implement Resist mode)

The main diff is that SLOPE mode is SLOPE simulation mode where you can ride GPX/TCX/FIT. Basically like Zwift, but you supply the outdoor route (to ride indoors)

I’m guessing that in your particular situation, you didn’t really do RESIST mode, you’re in “AUTO” mode (that’s basically workouts pulled from Intervals.icu).

If you were to change it to RESIST mode explicitly, you would see the green circled items at the top which defaults to 2% Slope. Did you have those? (you can change using the +/- buttons)

If you want to do a Slope Based Structured Workout without messing w/ the +/- buttons, you can see this thread. This is how you “hack” intervals.icu workout builder.

Slope Based Structured Workouts Now Supported (BreakAway: Indoor Training iOS)

I forgot to update this thread w/ the new method to do SLOPE/RESIST Based Structured Workouts. While the previous method can still be used, it’s a bit counterintuitive and what’s worst is that one can’t see the target power for that particular intervals. This has now been changed such that an automated ERG+RESIST workout will show the correct Workout Graphic and also change from ERG to RESIST mode automatically. This is how the workout graphic is shown in the app [IMG_4723] This is the cor…

If you want to ride like zwift, you can get any TCX/FIT/GPX files. you can even get some GPXs directly from Strava. eg:

Use this Strava link for Alps D Huez

Then grab the GPX

and save it to the Dropbox folder and it will sync to the App.
eg:

[Chris1982]

@app4g hey, thanks for replying.

Sorry, like just a pic of the WO, as below, or you want me to share a link to it? Not sure how to do that.

I want to ride the WO below as the target, but BA just recording what W I am putting out, not setting it & controlling it.

[app4g]

Yep… this will be pulled into BreakAway and default to ERG mode (under AUTO)
You can explicitly change it to RESIST Mode by selecting Resist and you should see all the Green Circles w/ the Slope %

@Chris1982

I want to ride the WO below as the target, but BA just recording what W I am putting out, not setting it & controlling it.

For this, I’m not sure how this can be done as you only have a Smart Trainer. Normally I would say, disconnect your Smart Trainer from BreakAway, and only connect your Power Meter so you get the power data recorded.

ps: going to bed v soon.