I hour zone 2 endurance ride

We all tend to to be statistics driven on here, but it really is not as complicated as we try to make it.
Most reasonably trained adults have a max heart rate in the 170 to 185 bpm region. So pretty much keeping your heart rate between 115 and 130 will mean most are in zone 2.

So if you aim for low 120’s on the flat, 130 on the hills and 115 on the descents you are very unlikely to stray into the anaerobic range.

Or am I overly simplifying it?

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I like keeping things simple, especially communication between athlete and coach.

Feel is an excellent tool that doesn’t require any device or download. If it feels hard, back off. If it feels easy, go a little longer at that effort or a bit harder for the planned duration.

To see one’s maxHR and estimated LTHR is not difficult, as this software shows one’s history, as shown by @david here. Testing is also a simple process, but there seems to be a fear of testing (or seeing a result that is below the expectation), or a shortcut option to get a result expected from a longer effort.

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I recently heard Joe Friel say that your aerobic threshold is about -30 beats from your anaerobic threshold.

If your training your aerobic that for me would be high Z2.

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I see Alan Couzens mentioned a couple of times above. I like this tweet from him that seems relevant to all the different formulae above

It's near impossible to come up with zones based on percentage of FTP or max heart rate that work well across the board.

In the lab, I've seen LT1 anywhere from ~45-70% of max and LT2 anywhere from ~70-93%.

There's only one way to know what your *individual* zones are..

TEST! pic.twitter.com/6rWVU2RJZS

— Alan Couzens (@Alan_Couzens) August 29, 2022

As @Gerald says above, testing is a good idea, and it’s not hard to do. This gives you some values to work with that are personal to your body and your current condition. I looked back at one of my tests on the bike and intervals.icu told me I had a new threshold value as expected.

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ahahah that’s one OK-quote from AC ! IMHO he is too adamant on the subject of high easy volume. If you are a “skilled” amateur training 10 hours per weeks in the last 10 years, you know that you can’t ramp up a lot your training volume and trade your tempo or VO2max session for all easy Z1 small gear flat deliberate and boring practice :wink:

Anybody that has a single motto in this endurance training realm is going sideways… there are many routes for the same goal.

Speaking of time efficiency I find the first post in this thread very interesting… is the trade-off against fatigue of working in your higher endurance zone benefiting you ? Personally, I find the high Z2 training (according to lactate measurements) quite hard…Intervals.icu

That there by Couzens is on the money. It’s why I think FTP test is probably the biggest single waste of time. It tells you absolutely nothing apart from the average watts you can sustain for 20 minutes (because most people do a 20 minute test). What a waste of time and effort.

A ramp test will tell you where you are efficient or inefficient. It’ll show you how strong or weak your aerobic base is and it’ll give you a damn good estimate of your LTHR. It tells you so much more than a 20 minute test. Set your own zones off it then.

Ya but it depends on your goals doesn’t it… I get the impression Alan Couzens is telling folk how to be ‘fitter for life’. He’s not telling you how to train to win a 2hr race or whatever.
He does not ignore the need for high intensity either, just that it must be done at the right time for the right duration.

What kind of ramp test is this? With what sensors?

3 min ramps. 20 watt increase.
You don’t need to go to exhaustion, just until you’re over your anaerobic threshold.

How do you work out the LTHR in that process? I imagine your HR will keep going up but at what point do you know you’re at LTHR

You’ll have to graph it and you’ll see on the graph 2 points where you HR stops rising linearly wrt power. One at aerobic threshold and the other at anaerobic.
Is it an exact science? No! But infinitely more informative that anything you’ll get from an FTP test

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Have a read here… Raising the floor (LT1, tempo) - #156 by steveneal - Beginners & Basic Tips - Fast Talk Laboratories Forum

If you speak to Steve Neal, he might assist with his test protocol. HR drives this workout, not power.

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its hard to stay at 130 upon hills :hot_face:

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Question. If HR goes down a little during the 2nd half of the z2 cycling session, does it mean it was too easy, or that the body is adjusting?
Or maybe it doesn’t mean anything? Or should I increase the power a little to stay on the preferred HR?
Thx

Was it indoors vs outdoors?
If outdoors, was it with/without wind?
What about time of day?

Most importantly, how did it feel (RPE)?

100% indoor Zwift person. Mostly cycling but also try to run on Zwift/Threadmill when it doesn’t conflict with cycling.

This felt very easy. 4/10
Last time harder 5/10
Before that one very hard and also very much higher HR 7/10

Almost Same power for all 3 sessions +/- 5watts (turn down watts a little if my HR goes too high)

Almost all my indoor cycling is evening or late evening

Based on your perceived effort, it’s a good indication that you’re aerobically fitter.
However, with so many factors affecting HR, it’s not always the case hence the triangulation between Power, HR and RPE.

Thank you.
Another question.
Now when I have the ambition to build, instead of always going hard, as in the past.
How do I know I’m done “building” and it’s time to introduce more intensity?

Goal is to get a strong as possible as fast as possible to get better zwift race results in B cat as a fairly light rider :grinning:

Assuming you’re still talking about Z2?
When you can hold the power for the full (intended) duration without >5% decoupling.

It depends what you define as “as fast as possible”.
You need to know where you are now, relative you where you want to get to. The difference will determine how long you need to adapt. How to measure the “gap”? Not that easy without access to your history, current physiology and your intended goal point.

FTP 210 in Zwift, gives me Z2 around 135-160 watts.

So if I can hold that for 80-90 minutes with HR also staying in Z2 ~130 bpm (max HR set to 182) then I can increase the power a little bit or should I first take a new FTP test?

Analysing my data and give me recommendations on how to build a plan, is that a service I can buy from intervals.icu? Would probably be a good investment :grinning: