Garmin, Hunter Allen and team, Joe Friel and Intervals.icu, making it all work together

Training
1

I am a Garmin user for the most part, with some random rides using the Wahoo Bolt 2.

The numbers I was getting from my Garmin and Intervals were telling me I needed to change my training to improve. Though my Garmin calculated VO2 max was in the good category, my FTP was lacking, classified as fair, compared to people my age. I will be 63 in a couple of weeks.

Intervals.icu numbers confirmed as well what Garmin was telling me. I had a very low Fitness value of 24, the form line was constantly in what I now call ā€œthe lazy zoneā€, the gray and blue ones (not tapering for an event, just in case you ask), with very low loads of about 50.

This was also apparent in my rides as I felt slow and with some lack of strength.

So, I knew I had to increase my training intensity as I was more on an LSD approach as well as be more consistent.

I took my ā€œTraining and Racing with a Power Meterā€ book to read about increasing FTP and planned on Sweet Spot and Threshold Intervals.

The problem is that I really do not like indoor training and the area where I ride is undulating, with continuous ups and downs that make it hard to maintain a pace.

I also have Joe Frielā€™s ā€œFast After 50ā€ that my daughter gave me as a Christmas present and I had yet to finish reading it, particularly the chapters where he describes how to train, so I did. And somewhere there he talked about Fartlek, the answer to my undulating training route. Garmin has some very nice tools that can be used for this.

I am a big FrielĀ“s fan and have read several of his books, particularly the Bible Series and as well as Cycling Past 50.

So, I acted applying the guidelines in these books as well as what the numbers that both Gamin and ICU were telling me.

I added more intense rides using the intensity approach exposed by Friel for people my age, including recovery as well. The intensity is measured both by using my power meter and heart rate monitor. It was interesting to learn that Friel suggests 4 types of workouts in his book but that 2 of them shall be guided by heart rate and not by power, even if you have a power meter.

It has been 2 weeks since I made changes to my training putting together the knowledge from ā€œTraining and Racing with a Power Meterā€ and ā€œFast After 50ā€, adapting them to be measured by Intervals.icu and Garmin, all of them very valuable.

GarminĀ“s approach to heart rate training using Firstbeatā€™s technology is amazing and the fitness chart in Intervals.icu used with my power meter allow to have a clear understanding of what is going on in my training.

I am now at a fitness level of 33 and a form of -23 considering today was a rest day. My VO2max per Garmin increased to 42, now in the excellent range. Intervals.icu shows it to be 38.7 but I still need to figure out the numbers as if I apply the estimation formula used by intervals

VO2Est = 16.6 + (8.87*Relative Power)

I get 40.10. Not a big deal as for me the important fact is that they should show an improving trend, and the absolute value is not that relevant at least for me.

The activity loads have increased to from 80 to 140 depending on the daily plan, that can be seen in the Fitness Chart numbers but more importantly in how much I am enjoying my rides.

In a couple of weeks, I will schedule an FTP test and check whether there is an improvement there as well.

My point with this post is to highlight that when all the training tools we have on hand coupled with the knowledge that we can get from these highly recognized trainers and authors, the results come and make riding and training very fun.

Thank you

Alberto

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A fitness value of 24 is rather low and at our age (Iā€™ll be 60 in 2 months), the volume for that fitness level is barely enough to ā€˜keep the actual shapeā€™.
Frielā€™s books are excellent advice. Another very good source is Alan Couzens. One of his quotes is ā€˜Monthly total training volume in hours equals my ageā€™. Meaning that, while he getā€™s older, he adds training hours to compensate for age related fitness/muscle loss. He does mean Total hours here, so crosstraining included. Cycling, walking, running, skying, etc and also Strength training hours.
My ā€˜Fartlekā€™ comes from Sunday group rides. The rest of the week is mostly Low intensity volume and 2 - 3 short strength sessions.
Now, be aware that 2 weeks is a very short period to draw conclusions on. If within 4 - 6 weeks, you start feeling tired, make sure to dial down intensity.

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@MedTechCD
Thanks for your comments, I will search for Alan Couzens, it is always good to learn.
Yes, my 24 fitness level was too low (I have had higher levels in the past) and that is why I set the goal to get it higher. Should be about 40 by the end of the week according to the training plan I made and my CTL planning spread sheet and about 50 in a couple of weeks.
I am tracking fatigue very closely using the ā€œfeelā€ score that I have set up my Garmin to ask for when ending a ride.

4

sorry for piggybacking, but where can I see intervals.icuā€™s estimated VO2max values?
I somehow managed to completely miss that.

also, thank you @BiciMapas for sharing your story!

5

On the table that show your best power durations (power page).

image
image552Ɨ1170 56.2 KB

When you click on the value, it will show the explanation:
image

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thank you!! helpful as ever

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Very informative post, thanks.

How do you explain the VO2max estimate gap between Garmin and ICU? In my case, (I am 66), Garmin gives me 48 and ICU gives me 32.2, a significant difference.

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@fdelorme I have yet to do more research but it seems to be that the relative power is calculated differently by each platform. When I use the relative power from Garmin Connect with the 5 minute power from Intervals.icu they almost match.

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Wow! So a 60 year old should do 2 hours a day. Assuming you take a day off per week (which always seems to be advised from multiple authors), then thats approx 2hr 20 min per day. I need to do more!

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Thanks ! The next natural question is then which one is closest to a lab-tested VO2max?

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I do not know and have no plans to do a lab test. But I use Garminā€™s as my reference because it is based on the Firstbeat Analytics system that Garmin devices have using a calculation based on EPOC, derived directly from heart rate data. You need a heart rate monitor with HRV capability to get Garminā€™s VO2Max figure.
The method that Intervals is using is based on a correlation study in which the authors found that the above 5 minute power based calculation provides a good approximation, but that is all, an approximation.
In Frielā€™s book, he mentions it is important to measure VO2Max and he provides an indirect method that is based on efficiency calculation using also a 5 minute maximal power effort from where you calculate the efficiency with the average power and average heart rate and states that if efficiency is improving then VO2max is also improving and no lab tests are needed (if you have the book, check page 277).
I guess that for professional cyclists, knowing the absolute value at certain moments of their training plan may be important, but in my case it is one of the several parameters I check and as long as there is a positive trend, I do not think a lab test would be valuable.

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After 2 weeks testing and following the guidelines, the results have been very positive. Fitness is now 39 and improving, I was able to find out the TSS values and IF I have to get to in each training session to improve fitness without getting in the fatigue zone.
I realized that there were not too many changes I had to do to my training. The first one was to be consistent, get up early and train at least 5 days a week. The second is that, although I do high intensity efforts in my outdoor rides, they are not long enough to impact the anaerobic threshold. One session training indoors, doing 3x3min @ VO2max as suggested by Friel, resulted in a new Intervals.icu eFTP.

Greetings

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Hello all,

I am making some videos in my YouTube channel to document this journey of how putting all these tools to work together yield in great results and share it with others who may want to follow along and maybe learn something new. They are in both English and Spanish.
The first video is a summary of what I consider to be the highlights of FrielĀ“s book for me. You can see it here

and the second one is an introduction to training with power and how its parameters shall be applied to use FrielĀ“s concepts. There is also a brief explanation on how to use the Fitness Chart aimed a new comers.
It is here

More videos to comeā€¦

Cheers

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Wow. 2.5 hrs a day (6 days/week) is indeed a lot!

Specially - if one is not fully-retired and has no other responsibilities, hobbies, family members to interact with, tend toā€¦

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Interesting. Garmin gives me 48 and ICU 47,9 (Iā€™m 65). so to say no difference. not sure whether one can compare the numbers calculated by different softwareā€¦
BTW my monthly training hours are 25 h (4 days/week).

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Software estimations and charts of what is good and not good vary widely. Weight is also part of all calculations of Relative VO2 max so that fluctuation of course would explain differences some experience that may not be otherwise explained.

Resultā€™s calculated using the same method would yield valid comparisons of improvement.

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Hi,
I decided to extend my testing for one more week for 2 reasons. First, I found that my HR monitor strap was damaged and I was getting wrong data, so it had to be replaced.
Second, I created a very nice table in the activities ā€œlistā€ option with columns showing the parameters I want to track such as load, fitness, intensity, average speed, bike used and others that allow to easily compare sessions, and needed some time to review the results.
Two of the most significant columns have been Feel and RPE. It is very easy now to find what type of loads and intensities produce more fatigue (body fatigue, not the fitness chart parameter) allowing to plan future sessions to prevent it. I even had a couple of ocassions where I got to the ā€œformā€ red zone in the Fitness Chart on purpose, to assess how I felt in relation to body fatigue.
I have just one more test to do in relation to Threshold and Sweet Spot intervals that shall be done tomorrow.
I found there are different interval definitions for Sweet Spot. Intervals.icu uses 84-97%, Coggan et all use 88-94% and Friel 88-93%. Not big differences but each has their own.
Garminā€™s VO2Max increased to 44, Intervals.icu estimated one is 40.4
And finally, a new reference was added, The Time Cruched Cyclist book by Carmichael has been helpful to set up some intervals and RBI durations that I will use as a reference to build the final plan this weekend.
It has been fun and interesting to do all these tests.
Cheers

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The red zone simply means that the exercises for the past 7 days have substantially exceeded your average exertion over the last 42 days. Itā€™s just a number which means different things for different people. But, whether thatā€™s more hours of easy cycling or more high intensity intervals, the red zone doesnā€™t care. The purpose is to alert the rider of the abnormal increase which elevates the chance of injury and overtraining. Increases in training regimes are best done gradually. Thatā€™s not to say one canā€™t go out and bust out some awesome rides or races of course. The word ā€˜carefullyā€™ comes to mind which includes hydration, diet, recovery, etc.

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@Jcmiii totally agree with your comments. The tests I have done in the last few weeks were to find what works for me to increase fitness and performance. I now have a clear understanding of the loads and intensity values I have to plan in my training sessions with, figured out what weekly load to use as a base, the type of intervals that give me better results, and so forth. When I started this thread I mentioned my fitness was 24 I think and now it is 45 with no fatigue that prevent me from riding. But the best part is I feel the difference when riding outdoors.

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20

Hello all,

This is Part 3 of the series showing how I analyzed data using Intervals.icu to help define my training schedule.

Greetings

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