Garmin, Hunter Allen and team, Joe Friel and Intervals.icu, making it all work together

Training
21

An update on the results and some findings along the way.

At the time of writing this post, my fitness score is in 64, an improvement of 40 points from where I started in early July. Garmin’s VO2 is now 47 and classified as “Superior”. I have not yet done a formal FTP test but the eFTP generated by Intervals went from 165 to 205 watts yesterday.

Other performance metrics have improved as well such as I got a 40 Km fastest time personal record in Garmin Connect, increased average speed, reduced heart rate for a certain power output, among others.

And all of this without falling into fatigue or overtraining.

Intervals has been key on getting these results by using and customizing several of the tools it offers.

I would say that in this stage of my training, the “List” view of the Calendar has been very valuable. I added several columns that allow to see the session results, but also, and maybe more important, to see performance patterns that allowed me to see how should I plan my training to get the results I am looking for. The ones I have used the most are Load, Intensity, Fitness, Feel and RPE and with them I was able to identify that I shall plan week days training sessions with loads of 90 TSS at least and Intensities above 81% for my Fitness score to improve.

List_view
List_view1268×642 90 KB

Long rides on weekends have been more productive with TSS greater than 130 and intensities between 75 and 85 %.

This information also allows to build the weekly training plan based on tested and proved results and practices.

I cannot stress enough how valuable the list view is and if you are not using it, I encourage you to do so adding those parameters that are important to your fitness goals.

Overall performance tracking is also very important and the Fitness Chart is a key tool for that. But besides its original purpose, it allows to get more information by custom charts.

Looking for the same data analysis power that the Calendar “List” view provides, I was looking for something similar for the weekly results. I found this post where this option has been asked for before but has not yet been implemented

and as you can see, in my last reply to that thread, I mention another method to get what I was looking for, which I am posting here as well. The idea of the weekly totals table was to track how I am applying the overload principle using several variables such as load, ramp rate, time, distance and work.

So, I created a second tab in the fitness chart and added custom charts for each of the variables using the weekly totals option. This shows both the graphic trends as well as the total values at the end of each week providing the information I was looking for. Very nice to help planning upcoming weeks.

Weekly_Totals
Weekly_Totals1256×642 55.2 KB

Also, understanding training concepts is very important as well. To train with power you should learn about the method you use either FTP or Critical Power as well as how Intervals implements them.

Intervals provides links to important training concepts and technologies that the platform uses. One of them is the Fitness Ramp and, reading more about it, Joe Friel has an article saying that an optimal weekly ramp should be between 5 and 8. Less than 5 will yield no improvements, more than 8 may be cause of overtraining.

The CTL Ramp Rate - Joe Friel (joefrieltraining.com)

That is why I decided to track this parameter as well.

How high should your fitness score be? There are several good articles about this topic that will help you to identify what you should aim for, such as this one in TrainingPeaks

And this one that was referenced by @MedTechCD

in this post

https://forum.intervals.icu/t/fitness-page-a-guide-to-getting-started/17702/68

Also, know how to use your device and the tools it provides. There may be options that you are aware they exist but with some imagination they can be used to support your training plans.

For example, in previous posts I mentioned that I do not like riding indoors unless it is the only option I have to train due to weather for example. So, to do the high intensity training recommended by Friel in Fast After 50, I am also using his Fartlek idea to do them outdoors.

In my training loop, I identified the sections suitable for doing the high intensity intervals. Garmin allows to create custom Segments in Connect Web and send them to your device. So, I created the ones for the sections I identified and activate them during the scheduled Fartlek sessions (they are not active in other sessions to prevent me from doing them when not scheduled). These segments have been very motivating and powerful to do this kind of training.

When you are able to make all your tools to work together, good results show.

The idea of this post is to share some practices I have used with good results that may be of help to other platform users to enhance their experience with Intervals.

Greetings

1 Like
22

Another interesting blog about ramp rate I just found:

CTL Ramp Rates | Alan Couzens

2 Likes
23

Interesting article from 2015. Uses CTL as the only variable when planning training even to the point of varying CTL, alone, to avoid boredom, my word I guess, as well other listed reasons when current training plans are targeting the types of exercise with the understanding all CTL is not the same. How the world of cycling fitness has changed.

24

Good inputs sounds like is just give above 90min, your sessions you get almost Load as 130.

I saw you “green” on Form is btw -10 and -30 , how do you choose this specific band, i asked bc my Green is BTW 10 a -20 Range , my AVG HR of activities is way greater than yours, but of course my “moving time” is lower too - I used to Rowing and Ski, so even with 84% Intensity and 60min , i got like 69 of Load

25

@R_S1 Thanks for the comments. Using the list view I mention in the post, I did lots of correlations between the parameters to figure out what works for me. By looking at the daily loads and their impact in fitness and form, I was able to identify the load, duration and intensity I should aim to in each training session to improve fitness without overtraining or fatigue. How often you train is also important. I am now training 5 days a week. Increasing or decreasing training days would also impact the form and fitness results

1 Like
26

Yes I also believe you can improve with lower ramp rates. And eventually you will find limiters to further ramp increases, so I wouldn’t rush into it too fast, I like the Quote From
Alberto Salazar

“Be patient not a patient”

1 Like
27

@JEFFREY_OHARA
Yes, I agree. I am now in my planned recovery week and form has moved to the gray area with a -8 and maybe will go even further into it until I resume my load weeks training. My goal is to get to 70-75 and then introduce other training goals.

28

Interesting ride results today. I have been delaying to do a formal FTP test (they are not fun at all, but needed) that I know I have to do as my Normalized Power values have been constantly increasing in the last few weeks resulting in high intensity factors.

So yesterday I decided to try other different options to test for FTP.

In my Edge 1040, I activated the FTP autodetect function that needs a 20 minute constant effort to get the FTP.

I also added the “What´s my FTP?” data field from Xert to the profile I used today. This data field uses short high intensity efforts to calculate the FTP and recommends a 2 minute sustained high intensity effort to get good results.

And I kept the 110 seconds time to get the eFTP in intervals.icu.

I did my Fartlek ride today, with several high intensity efforts and made sure to do a 2 minute long sustained high effort that should be good for both Xert and Intervals. I almost depleted my W prime in this effort.

During the ride, after the efforts, the intensity factor was showing values above 1, confirming that a new FTP shall be obtained. The results were:

Garmin Autodetect: 198 w
Xert What´s my FTP: 200 w
Intervals ride eFTP: 203 w (current eFTP is 205 w)

A 5 watt difference among the 3 options, so, very close results.
As this was an unplanned test, I was not in optimal conditions for testing. I felt good during the ride that I classified with a feel of “Normal” but was not in my strongest day, so I will do this again when I feel more rested.

For now, I have updated my FTP to the middle value of 200w but I believe it should be a little higher than that.

29

And is that small difference going to make any changes to your training?

There’s no need to put that much emphasis to the FTP number. If it is in the ballpark, it’s good enough. In the end, you only really need it to have a decent TSS load calculation.

I said this a couple times before, do LIT work with a HR target and HIT work based on your last 42d PDC curve. Performance improvements can be followed up with sub-threshold intervals, less taxing and less stressful then FTP tests. An improved Power/HR number at 92-94% FTP means that you have improved. You don’t need to get to the bottom to find it out.

FWIW: I have been using Xert’s What’s my FTP and Intervals as ‘close enough’ for the last 3+ years to set my FTP and keep Load numbers realistic. Regular spirited group rides are giving me enough input.

30

"Hi Med, a quick question if you don’t mind. Do you know how to disable this feature, or better yet, the reason behind it and whether it makes sense? I do some interval training, and sometimes intervals.icu suggests that my FTP has increased (which clearly doesn’t feel like it to me ( LIke 60seg on/60seg off)

31

The reason is that you have done an average power for a time exceeding the minimum FTP duration setting, and that is higher then the one corresponding to the FastFitnessTips curve that your last result was fitted on.
:sweat_smile: not easy to explain…
Intervals uses a combination of things to estimate your eFTP from shorter efforts. The shortest effort that YOU want to consider valid can be adjusted in settings. If, for example, you know that you have an above average anaerobic power, you will want to increase the minimal duration and avoid that your FTP is over-estimated by that. From that, your results are compared to a huge PDC curve database from FFT and you are ‘fitted’ to one of those, with a FTP value as result.
If Intervals now finds an effort longer then the minimal duration, with a higher power average then your actual eFTP, it will detect a new FTP.
So even on VO2max sessions, you may get a new FTP indication and it’s up to you to decide if you accept it.
Maybe you want to set the minimum duration for the efforts to 1800sec (30 min)? Only those long efforts will then prompt you with a new FTP…

1 Like
32

Hello all,

After the results I shared in my last post about other FTP test options, I decided to give the Xert What’s My FTP Garmin data field a deeper look.
I found an article in their website explaining in detail how to get better results:

Real-Time FTP Determination – Xert (baronbiosys.com)

and in my ride last Saturday I gave it a try with good results. Using the method explained in the link above, I got and FTP value of 206 watts and also got the same value from Intervals.icu eFTP (maybe a coincidence they both were exactly the same but proof that the results are close enough among the 2 options).

So, this data field is proving to be a very good alternative for FTP testing instead of the traditional methods. I will continue to use it for future testing.
One issue it has is that the detected FTP value is not stored in the activity FIT file so you have to take note of it before stopping the activity as there is no way to get it in Garmin Connect that I have found. I asked the developer in ConnectIQ about this but no response yet.
So if you have a compatible Garmin device and use FTP for training, this data field may be a good alternative to get updates coming from your normal rides.

With the primary initial goals I set for completed (train consistently, improve the fitness score, and improve my FTP) this “Base” training period has been completed and it is now time to move to other goals.
Greetings