I do not believe so, but note that you may not be able to see it since the textfield is not really long.
Yes. that is one of the “consideration” i was looking at since ZWO (as far as I know) / ERG & MRC workout files does not have any capability for users to input a prescribed HR range similar to the workout power Range. (if it has, it would be a lot simpler. I have thought of rolling my own version of MRC but that was for SLOPE Mode but in erg style, but this needed a way to have a workout editor that can do this else users will need to learn how to hand-type it)
So, for instance, as for “advanced users” one option is to use this “FTP Zone(w)” field for user to specify the HR Range for that particular interval.
So, essentially you would enter like
120,5,140,10,120,5
or
[120,5],[140,10],[120,5]
But downside is - this will be ALL Manual and will need to be user input each time.
What’s FTM?
It’s labelled as FTP Zone because originally it was supposed to be based on a % of user’s FTP.
I find DFA is very picky and after many tries, i’m still on the fence on its usefulness.
and I also found RR is has quite a lot of Noise esp if you’re not using the correct HRM + HR Strap combo and it should be worst when running.
so… essentially no action needed from my side is what you’re saying?
because the pre-defined intervals (eg: Mainset) and the relevant HR range is supposed to make the Mainset Power go Up / Down otherwise, the app won’t really have an anchor on what wattage to go up to / start from etc.
It appears that I’m able to do what I want with the current functionality.
The power anchor point would be the current power: adjust up/dn in a) pre-defined watts zones increments in the CSV; or b) a given percentage of the current wattage output. In both cases, a set HR and variance from that set point would be the trigger.
Actually, using power zone up/dn in user defined ranges, although requiring some user input works well since ERG mode keeps the power relatively steady while also allowing for cadence variation.
With that said, don’t give up on HR guided control, it may be the next new thing.
Could you please show me how you are using it? eg: the settings/values you’re putting into the “ftp zone(w)” CSV text field as well how you’re using it based on the 5hr ride?
BTW - I just realised that the “FTP Zone(w)” will only work when you didn’t select ANY ERG/SLOPE mode workouts… Essentially starting the app w/ a BLANK screen (on the workout area)
It definitely needs more thought - esp on the implementation of the MRC/ERG part of it.
Rename pages - Yes. That’s actually something I would like to do but I left it for LATER
Disable Pages - I expected people to ask for MORE pages, not less. In any case, I don’t plan on disabling since it doesn’t really disturb the flow. Also, when I ride, I really only use that 1 page anyhow. Does it disturb anything?
I start at very low watts and warm up to Z1 HR during the first 10 minutes. Once reaching ~105 bpm then I bump the watts, while keeping HR within 105-115 bpm. BreakAway makes this easy via the user-defined watts CSV field and the Up/Dn buttons.
It takes my body 45-60 minutes to get out of primarily using glycolysis and into primarily using fat burning. Based on experience and data, fat burning takes full effect after 90 minutes in my body. During those initial 90 minutes I’m able to bump watts without increasing HR. The aim is always to avoid HR drift above 120 bpm throughout the entire session. I increase the watts if there’s room, and decrease the watts if HR drift starts to occur. I’d rather maintain lower watts and stay below LT1 than try for more watts and raise lactate.
Power zone increases vary depending on the day. For today, I just got over a couple days of low HRV due to IBD issues. (I have chronically elevated inflammation due to gut issues.) This meant that I didn’t get watts up to normal levels for this type of session. I also had a one hour T-run (bricked run) and didn’t want to over stress the system as it heals from the last few days.
The HR spikes are from when I eat and drink.
I adjust the power zone down when taking lactate and blood glucose then raise it up again as I settle back in.
The long-term goal is to increase power and to lower lactate to 1mmol/L through the session while keeping HR the same as in today’s session.
For tempo sessions I’ll use the same protocol but adjust the power to raise HR to 115-125 by the end of each interval while also allowing room for HR to grow throughout the intervals without exceeding the cap in any interval and staying below LT2.
The HR cap is just that, a cap, NOT a target.
I like the ERG mode since I can vary cadence while maintaining similar watts and HR.
@app4g I would like to perform a test such as the 20min FTP test or similar. In doing so I would like to have all the preparation warm up laps done in ERG mode and switch to slope mode (i.e. to switch ERG off) for the 20 min portion only.
Is a command line (in intervals.icu) such as “-20m freeride 105%” interpreted by BreakAway as “switch ERG off”? Or there is another way to do it? Or do I have to do the whole workout in slope mode in BreakAway (without transfer it from intervals.icu)?
Thank you
Hi @Alessandro_Cella thanks for your question. In the current architecture for BreakAway, it is only able to do EITHER
ERG Mode
SLOPE mode
It is currently not able to do switching between the modes automatically. It is something which I have been thinking of implementing but as of current, it is still not implemented.
Part of the challenge is the way I have architected the App, and another is due to there being no available workout builder which is able to do the ERG → SLOPE → ERG mode switching using MRC/ERG files. (I know there is one that is doing it via ZWO file format, which I do not support)
The other challenge is also i have yet to test how the trainer behaves when given 2 different kinds of targets. eg: ERG mode… then sending SLOPE Mode command. Will it be confused?
w/ regard to the ERG/MRC file format (which does not support ERG → SLOPE), I am thinking of hacking the file format to implement this option. Something like
Typically MRC format specify it as TIME - % FTP
[COURSE DATA]
0.00 40
10.00 40
10.00 83
[COURSE DATA]
I am thinking that since most SLOPE mode are < 10% gradient, I can utilise the logic that if the %FTP is <10%, then I will use that as a SLOPE target. It Seems to be quite simple change, tho I really need to code it up and test it before I can commit to it.
Audio Cues (@Knut_Petter_Svendsen maybe this would be beneficial to your treadmill runs)
Now I am able to have user preference on ability to Announce the next Intervals via spoken audio. (and also announce any custom interval cues present in the MRC/ERG file) eg:
Prepare For Next Interval
Power Target - 120 to 150w
Interval Duration - 30seconds
Keep RPM steady at 80 - 90rpm
Basically what it does is it takes your FIT/TCX/GPX file (in slope mode), processes it and then classifies any climbs that it sees (some options user configurable).
The Algorithm is fully dependent on the altitude data from the original FIT/GPX/TCX file and knowing that barometric altimeters are also prone to weather patterns / GPS noise etc, there would invariably be some delay or errors. I also try to smoothen out the altitude and the resultant slope so it’s not too “spiky”.
eg: London, BoxHill.gpx climb Vue GPX Smoother (this is actually not as bad, some files I see spikes of 80% gradient)
Here are 2 screenshots of it. In the first screenshow, it will start to show distance to the next climb as you approach 300m to the climb, and then once you reach the climb, the chart will switch (zoom) to the climb itself. (user configurable) and the display will also show the Average Gradient of the entire climb (2.6%), distance of climb remaining (19.93km) and the remaining Altitude to climb (529m)
Hi @Raphael can you provide some feedback on the split screen feature and have your trainer connect to both BreakAway as well as Zwift or something else since your Elite Zumo has multiple BLE connection capability.
Hi @Howie I’m coming back to your HR “cap / target / Limit” request.
(Yes, i understand your request is for a “cap”, however there’s another request for “target / upper Limit” - which to me is quite similar.)
I will re-iterate this tho, the challenge for this “HR Mode” is that there is no ability to put a HR target or a Cadence Target/upper/lower limit or any other form of targets/limits within the current MRC/ERG file formats. The only way for me to do this automatically would likely be to invent some special file format (adding a new column to ERG/MRC file formats) and users will need to
Manually create / edit the workout in notepad / text editor
use/load workouts directly from DropBox (instead of syncing from intervals.icu) [ you will lose out on being able to see the workout “profile” as dropbox support has FIT/TCX/GPX in addition to ERG/MRC and processing FIT/TCX/GPX takes a couple of seconds and thus it’s not ideal to show the workout profile)
The other alternative I’m thinking is, currently i have this intervals.icu logo (created for a diff purpose) overlaid on the screen (moveable / draggable) and somehow use this as a trigger for “I have reached my HR Upper limit / Target / Cap” and when this button is enabled/pressed, it would switch to HR mode and use the current HR (or have a setup somewhere that says, this current HR + 5bpm) is the max HR for this intervals. Then the app will continually loop and check the average HR for the past 2min window(?) or lap HR for that interval (lap HR is a lot easier since its already a calculated data field) and then adjust the Wattage jumps automatically using the preset +/- button watt jumps.
thots?
In any case, I’m working on seeing if I’m able to get support for the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine trainer. (got a request from @Steve_Shikaze)
This is exactly what I am looking for as well for sustained endurance workouts.
The simple approach that @Howie points out would work and would not need ERG/MRC type files… Just set the HR target using the app up/down buttons and let the app control the trainer accounting for the HR lag to power. Would have to longish time windows for averaging the HR since the HR drift is a slow time scale thing. The older Wahoo Kickr app had the ERG mode on power and you used up/down buttons…… same principle…
Let me clarify, you guys are asking for another selection on the SETTINGS page for the “smart trainer mode” something like the below mockup? (the yellow addition)
When in HR mode, the Up/Dn button will be used to set the HR Upper Limit? But the app will still have ERG mode control. There will be another data field needed (called HR Target, in parallel to current Power Target data field that you will need to show on display tho)
This will still be a bit complicated due to architecture of the current system. Also, this will not be automatic switching, user will still need to press a button to go from ERG mode to HR Mode for the Up/Dn Buttons.
Possibly the best compromise I can think of right now is to use the moveable/draggable icon to toggle the Up/Dn button from ERG Watt Steps to HR bpm Steps. (possibly using the same number eg: 5w increment == 5 bpm increment / decrement) So once you’re in the interval you wish to have the HR cap, you press the moveable/draggable icon to go to HR BPM steps and you set the max HR for that interval(5bpm steps). Once in HR Mode, app will use the same steps (5bpm == 5watts) to continually adjust the ERG mode target based on the Lap HR
Note : HR Target Mode will be an “advanced option” setup. (or basically just put the option as ?use Up/Dn button for HR target in ERG mode. It won’t be something intuitive to users for sure.)
is this for Power ERG Target or for HR? AFAIK, it’s for ERG.
