I read some other posts regarding that topic and I think its a common question.
I recently came back from a longer type of injury, which almost got me out of cycling for one year, so I basically starting from “zero”. unfortunately I also gained some weight, so currently I am about 82kg with an FTP of around 230W.
I want to get back to my base by doing Zone 2 training, and because I think the countryside and views are much more rewarding doin this in a hilly area, I like to ride there. the problem is just, to keep straight and not falling over, I need to push around 190-200w on the climbs, which is zone 3.
I have 35x33 as my lowest gear, but with my current weight, when the gradient gets like 8-9% I only ride like 7-9 km/h.
The other problem is, I think this is an issue since years, In 95% of my rides, I have around 25% in Zone 1.
One reason being there are a lot of downhills where its hard to push on the pedals because of some tricky descents.
So, there are 2 concerns, 2 questions in this posting. First one would be: is it okay to ride uphill in zone 3 or would it be more beneficial to see this ride more as a workout and try to get in that sweet spot? if there are 5 climbs and each climb I would ride at FTP my training gain would be higher?
2nd question - with my current form/weight situation I think I would get more ouf of my session with riding flattier roads?
I think I am in the twist of a) still want to have fun on the bike b) but want to get better, more in shape and lose some weight.
I feel like recent weeks I wasted a lof of hours with junk miles
If you’ve 30 hours a week to train a lot of this time might be spent in Z1. Allows for volume.
Z3 is hugely effective for developing aerobic base. Just takes longer to recover from! So if you have a strong base and are able to properly recover from a Z3 session, it’s a hugely effective training zone
I think my base is quite good, need to work on more sweet spot and FTP efforts.
If I dont have a hill nearby where I can do 10-20 minutes FTP efforts would it be also good to do like 6x6 @FTP with like 30s recovery? Its just not the same is it?
6x6 at FTP with a 30 second recovery will probably pass your TTE without allowing time for recovery to actually do sets above the TTE. On the third set your heart rate will almost certainly be higher than your threshold HR, so those sets will leave you with a completely different fatigue. My suggestion is that you start with 5x5 at 95-100% of FTP with 1 minute of recovery between sets, but these sets will not be able to go beyond your threshold HR. Once you make a progression and are able to control that pulse you can move on to 4x8. To do this you must already have a progression and a good aerobic endurance.
by junk I mean miles where you just ride by feel, stress your body, so you dont recover good enough to go hard on the “hard days”.
thats what pioridization is all about, isn’t it? for example If I go ride on Saturday and sunday and ride climbs on middle zone 3, I would not be properly recovered for a zone 5 interval ride on tuesday. so it would be better to not ride a hilly route on the weekend. I would also consider zone 1 or coasting junk miles because you waste time without getting better on the bike.
so for doing a 4x8 I would also to have a long-ish climb but i think I will manage this.
thanks for answering, I will try to incorporate those
That’s why coaches adjust training sessions, rests, loads, etc… A well-planned zone 3 will improve your first threshold, ftp and resistance to fatigue. The issue that leaves more fatigue will all depend on how well prepared you are and what aerobic background you have and your physiological profile, for an athlete with a high glycolytic capacity the series in zone 3 will cause more fatigue than another who is more oxidative. That’s what we coaches are there for, to get to know the athlete, to know their objectives and to adjust the training sessions.
The answer depends upon your objectives. If your primary aim is weight loss, you may ride at a comfortable pace that feels right for you. However, if your goal is to enhance performance, it is crucial to maintain a Zone 2 intensity during training sessions specifically designed for that zone. Riding at an intensity that exceeds your zone will shift your body into a different energy system, requiring approximately thirty minutes, and often longer for some individuals, to revert to its original state.
If your Functional Threshold Power (FTP) is 230W, then your wattage for Zone 2 would be significantly lower, likely under 170W. However, when training in Zone 2, monitoring your heart rate may be more critical than focusing solely on power output. In effective Zone 2 training, the decoupling between heart rate and power should ideally remain below 1%. This means that if you maintain a power output of 165W for an hour, your heart rate should remain relatively stable and its regression line would be nearly flat.
Professional cyclists on the world tour utilise cold-pressed cherry juice and ketones to enhance their recovery process. As an alternative, any juice rich in antioxidants, such as cranberry juice, can be beneficial. For promoting mitochondrial growth, I suggest incorporating beetroot juice into your diet.
Z2 is nothing special, no additional benefits other than allowing you to accumulate volume whilst keeping you fresher for your hard days, so you can actually do them hard, and hard for longer.
Don’t be a slave to Z2! Whilst you’re getting back up to speed shift the balance a little more from “must improve as much as possible” to “must have as much fun as possible”. With that in aim, those hours you’ve done drifting into Z1 and Z3 can still be fun.
Nothing will kill your long term aims more than getting home from a great ride, seeing you’ve spent only 60% of your ride in Z2, and suddenly decided that 40% of your ride was a “waste”…
I would say my current goals are getting back to where I was before injury, which I will be heading soon I think. maybe even this season. I would be glad with a 20min power of 275-280.
But then I would like to really focus on weight loss, need to lose around 10kg. I also read that one forum post, where somebody said your body switches after around 30m to burning and using more fat, because it realises it can not sustain this tempo with burning glucose from blood, liver and muscles.
the same goes the other way around, if your body was in a mode where he tried to use fat acids as source for atp, and you suddendly increase your current need for sugars, it will shift back again to using more avaiable glucose.
There are dozens of ways to improve your 20 minute power, and it’s near impossible for me to help much without lots more information! What I will say is, if you have been at that level recently, you can almost certainly get back to where you were.
A word of warning, please don’t listen to anyone when they say you should exercise for your “fat burning zone”. What will help you lose weight is a steady, prolonged period of caloric deficit. i.e. burn more calories than you consume. There is so much nonsense bro-science based on (at best) very limited understanding of metabolism. Your substrate utilisation depends of various factors, so reducing it to pre-30 mins = carbs, post-30 mins = fat is a tad short of the mark. Intensity, duration, food consumption before and during, training status, fatigue, previous exercise and sleep can all have an effect.
Increasing training load and trying to lose weight is a tricky one, but if you’re not looking to lose substantial amounts, can be done gently over time. Can I ask how much weight you are looking to lose?
yeah I know, there is just simply too much out there regarding fat loss and everything which comes around with it. what made me even more confusing was a video from GCN in which they claimed that you can also not count calories because the term calorie and idea is over 100y old and most companies can only estimate it for their food, so yeah, quite tricky
I am trying to lose around 10kg, I am around 82kg at the moment, in good shape I was 73-75kg and in “super” shape after a week of climbing in the Alps I was always around 71kg.
So yes, trying to lose weight and also being on a training schedule with a lof of load is not easy to maintain
Can you provide a source for this? And can you quantify how long and into what zone this apparently occurs? For example, if I ride for a few minutes at threshold, you’re saying it’ll take me 30 minutes to recover?
My understanding as a dumb engineer is that all energy systems are “on” and in flux, and your body will use the easiest energy available to produce power for the task.
I’m far from being an expert in the field, but from what I understand, lactate serve also as a signal molecule, and over a certain level it inhibits the fatty acid burning in the mitochondria, and this inhibition lasts around 30 mins.
(this is what I got from some reading and mostly from listening to Iñigo San Millan and George Brooks. I’m sure ppl will correct my mistakes)
And for exercising dogs…the highlighted statement seems counterintuitive…introducing lactate reduce FFA. Does that mean FFA were produced less…or were FFA’s used more, resulting in a lower FFA count?
I don’t know much about road bikes & am new to cycling but I used to use an eBike to do my Zone 2 work in a forest trail/fire road environment on a cheap Decathlon emtb. Depending on how wet it got on a regular bike I used to have to go into a sprint just to make it over a hill, the ebike obviously fixed that.
Now I got a 52t easy gear on my acoustic mtb on a 1x11 drive train (Shimano CUES), the same hills I used to have to sprint up are now comfortably within my aerobic zone & I no longer need an ebike. I’ve found it to be a revelation in training before AeT. The descents are another situation though, the terrain is sometimes too rough to not be on the breaks with my bike skills. The bike skills are coming along but it’s taking longer than my endurance.