Linear KJ ramp + HR cap: unexpected stability in the green zone

[ivegotabike]

A good case can be made for training by power, or by HR, and certainly for combining both.

I agree that lag and other factors does affect HR. I say that does not make it wholly unusable.

I like HR caps and I like HR targets for intervals where the target remains the same for >3 minutes.

I use the trainerday HR+ (controls trainer watts based on HR targets) feature in combination with intervals that start with an ERG period to get up to a target HR quickly.

It works well for 30 minute tempo intervals at 80% HR max. Also for 10 minute threshold intervals at 87% HR max. I keep looking at a VO2 workout that has 4 minute intervals at 95% HR max, but I am not ready to tackle it yet.

For shorter efforts and sprints, HR is interesting to look at it afterwards, but I don’t see how it can be used to manage intensity in such efforts.

Breathing rate is an interesting metric too. I have done nothing more than try to manually count mine from time to time. I expect that, when the technology becomes more common, I will try a sensor of some sort.

It would be interesting to read your feedback on the new breathing controlled power when you have used it a few times.

In the context of using high intensity work to support the growth of aerobic capacity, maybe aligning the nature of the intensity work for the riding we are training for makes sense? Or just mixing up the high intensity work based on anything, or nothing.

It could be different for different people and at different times. For example, 30/15 VO2 intervals could be suitable right now and, later in the year, 15 minute threshold intervals might be more suitable. More suitable because the nature of the riding being trained for changes, or more suitable just because that is what the rider wants to do.

As long as the aerobic conditioning work continues without the high intensity work being too hard / too much to negatively affect it, it should work out OK… shouldn’t it?

A couple more thoughts. When the W/HR curve starts to flatten and one decides to introduce intensity work. 1) Is the intensity work done as a block (say 4 weeks) before returning to low HR only work, or is it on the schedule “forever”? 2) Is the intensity work structured to be progressive (e.g. by intervals getting longer, or intensity getting higher)?

[Steve_Balboni]

@ivegotabike

A couple more thoughts. When the W/HR curve starts to flatten and one decides to introduce intensity work. 1) Is the intensity work done as a block (say 4 weeks) before returning to low HR only work, or is it on the schedule “forever”? 2) Is the intensity work structured to be progressive (e.g. by intervals getting longer, or intensity getting higher)?

Again, I am just experimenting but the way I plan to introduce this is through precisely controlled KJ buckets. Multiple intensity “buckets” like 400-500w, 360-399w, 320-359w, and 275-319 (which is just threshold region).

Take each block and grow them at a ramp rate per day in KJ. For example, add 1kj per day into 320-360 range, 2Kj per day into 275-319 range.

Now these aren’t traditional methods, not at all. Im not claiming its correct. But the issue is that from a first principles point of view, the current methods in training all converge around certain assumptions. I’m trying to break those fundamental assumptions.

My inspiration for this plan is the work in Simulacra and Simulation as well as DARPA’s Gamebreaker

I also realize a lot of readers of this post wont grasp these ideas and thats ok. So they’ll probably go for ad hominem instead lol.

[ivegotabike]

I can see the sense in the idea and I am all for experimentation.

How long that linear increase can be sustained, before something gives, is an interesting thing to explore.

I am familiar with some of Baudrillard’s work, but had not heard of the DARPA Gamebreaker program before - I will look at that, thanks.

[Steve_Balboni]

Here is the data so far from my experiment.

I want to see if this can get to pro levels of volume — approximately 25,000 kJ per week. But doing that for 3 consecutive weeks will be interesting. Who knows.

Date	Morning KJ	Afternoon KJ	Morning Watts	Morning HR	Afternoon Watts	Afternoon HR
2/10/26	600	600	210	138	191	144
2/11/26	600	600	227	142	213	144
2/12/26	600	600	198	140	169	132
2/13/26	600	600	178	131	162	123
2/14/26	600	600	181	130	186	131
2/15/26	605	605	217	140	187	130
2/16/26	610	610	179	130	203	135
2/17/26	615	615	204	137	180	130
2/18/26	620	620	207	131	176	128
2/19/26	625	625	215	138	189	131
2/20/26	635	635	195	130	211	135
2/21/26	640	640	214	140	214	140
2/22/26	645	645	198	127	215	144
2/23/26	650	650	166	117	206	130
2/24/26	655	655	210	129	208	134
2/25/26	660	660	207	132	198	134
2/26/26	665	665	207	134	202	135
2/27/26	670	670	203	133	208	134
2/28/26	675	675	198	135	205	135
3/1/26	680	680	216	134	213	129
3/2/26	685	685	208	131	202	134
3/3/26	690	690	209	134	211	134
3/4/26	695	695	208	133	169	121
3/5/26	700	700	210	135	184	125
3/6/26	705	705	193	131	194	129
3/7/26	710	710	197	130	200	130
3/8/26	715	715	210	135	208	134
3/9/26	720	720	204	128	212	135
3/10/26	725	725	201	132	210	135
3/11/26	730	730	210	135	201	134
3/12/26	735	735	215	135	215	135
3/13/26	740	740	205	135	216	135
3/14/26	745	745	209	135	222	134
3/15/26	750	750	219	135	209	135
3/16/26	755	755	217	135	218	135
3/17/26	760	760	214	135	208	135
3/18/26	765	765	207	135	224	135
3/19/26	770	770	220	135	205	135
3/20/26	775	775	205	135	212	135
3/21/26	780	780	246	151	256	156
3/22/26	785	785	215	135	221	135
3/23/26	790	790	220	135	208	130
3/24/26	795	795	207.36	135.54	213.46	135.14
3/25/26	800	800	214.66	135.51	205.01	135.75
3/26/26	805	805	208.41	135.88	211.05	135.22
3/27/26	810	810	219.81	135.39	219.96	135.99
3/28/26	815	815	218.49	135.83	220.2	136.27
3/29/26	820	820	194	132	193	133
3/30/26	825	825	220.11	140.182	222.45	137.425
3/31/26	830	830	221	136	216.72	135.771
4/1/26	835	835	218.17	144.901	207.88	140.38
4/2/26	840	840	220.5	141.38	252.95	151.82
4/3/26	845	845	210.46	135.63	216.09	135.35
4/4/26	850	850	223.25	135.38	216.02	135.555
4/5/26	855	855	209.74	133.35	209.74	133.35
4/6/26	860	860	230.62	135.48	219.2	135.505
4/7/26	865	865	211	137	211.01	135.58
4/8/26	870	870	212.4	137.418	222.07	136.903
4/9/26	875	875	210.39	137.85	216.7	136.66
4/10/26	880	880	214.52	137.05	216.32	135.3
4/11/26	885	885	223.25	137.878	224.84	137.85

[WindWarrior]

@Steve_Balboni

That doesn’t make any sense and it’s not really on topic. Sorry I just don’t know what response your looking for with these announcements

Actually it is, according to your core idea:

@Steve_Balboni

The core idea is:

• Fix heart rate (~135 bpm cap)
• Increase total work by +10 kJ per day
• Split into two rides (roughly equal KJ)
• Let power float naturally under the HR constraint

That’s it.

…
…
3. Fatigue is “absorbed” instead of accumulating

• Even as KJ increases, I’m not seeing the usual breakdown

The HR cap is essentially a metabolic state, whether thats above or below LT1. There are studies showing long periods (years) of increased volume (increased kJ) is possible when majority of work is below LT1 (as it greatly reduces sympathetic nervous system stress). That training concept has been around for a long time. I’ve got a book from 22 years ago with lactate testing to establish the HR cap, and then progressively ramping volume which is essentially implementing a linear kJ ramp.

Back in 2022 my experiments were capped around 139bpm and as older dude was able to sustain 8 hours/week for about 9 months before I started breaking down. Then I really dropped HR below 128bpm for a final volume push. Early 2023 saw very nice gains across power curve, including my best ever 20 minute effort.

Regarding adding intensity, you need it to generate aerobic adaptations in type 2 muscle fibers, assuming your 136bpm is mainly generating type 1 muscle fiber adaptations.

Good work.

[ivegotabike]

You are almost half way there!

1785 kJ per session, twice per day.

If you carry on as you are, you will be there in 180 days.

Mark the calendar: 8 October

[Steve_Balboni]

Are you ai?

[ivegotabike]

No, I am an actual real live human that rides bikes.

Although if I was AI, I would say something like that, wouldn’t I?

[Steve_Balboni]

This was a few hours after ride 1 on tuesday. Every metric says back off but HRV is holding strong day to day.

[WindWarrior]

FWIW I know more than a few guys putting down 15-25 hours/week. One was in his late 30s, and two Cat3s that quickly became Cat1s that were in mid 20s. The guy in late 30s had a 1 hour usable FTP over 350W (maybe 375???) and was doing most of his endurance at 100-120W. Something like 12-14 hours below 120W. And then going out on Wed Worlds and Sat throw downs and absolutely killing it.

The guys in 20s were coached by former Conti pros (different coaches), and they had a hard cap of 150W and told to ride lower (IIRC they both had HR below 125bpm). The mid 20-somethings did that year after year after year, and now late 20s are P1 and killing it. Despite riding most endurance below 150W and have usable (race and practice race) 1-hour FTPs over 350W.

Also a guy down the street in late 60s, has a CA state champion jersey, and same thing even now. Just lots and lots of really really easy time in saddle.

Go look at the X or other feeds of Alan Couzens and Gordo Byrn (World Champion Ultra Distance Triathlon) and Inaka de la Parra (Ultraman World Champion). It’s really easy to overcook low intensity and do it too hard.

I’m not even remotely in their leagues and eventually overcooked myself doing low intensity at 136-139bpm (/ 180-210W) on 8 hours/week at a 275W ftp.

FWIW.

[ivegotabike]

Could it still satisfy your definition of linear kJ ramp if you introduced a rest day into the structure at any point?

Be that a one off rest day as and when you decided it was appropriate, or if it was a regular feature - say one day every XX days?

[Steve_Balboni]

Second hand anecdote of a summary of a story is pretty useless

[Steve_Balboni]

Anything can be anything if you change the defintion

[Steve_Balboni]

Highest volume
highest back to back TSS
Highest CTL

Week I’ve ever done. All from controlling KJ at 10-12kj ramp per day.

[ivegotabike]

Great work.

How are you feeling? How are W/HR and HRV looking?

The daily / weekly load increase is becoming a smaller percentage of the overall daily / weekly load. I wonder if that is noticeable already, or if it becomes significant in any way at any point?

[Steve_Balboni]

CTL and ATL continue to reach all time highs.

[R_S1]

A question: I’m impressed it’s “just one hour.” I see you don’t set any HR cap like WindWarrior mentioned. Are you basing it only on kJ? I was doing something similar, trying to beat my kJ, or at least maintain a rolling monthly kJ target to exceed each week. But I also give myself a kind of “recovery score” to avoid overloading any single discipline.

So please continue sharing your experiments—it would be great to see new approaches.

Taking advantage of what we’re discussing, I’d like your opinion.

Consequently, in, for example, VO2 max or SIIT phases, my KJ drops – meaning I train harder, but the sessions tend to be shorter or I have more rest days.

How do you deal with this? Even in phases where you exert more effort and need rest days, would you try to beat the KJ from the previous week/month? In other words, would the VO2 max session add more time even if it’s low enough to beat the KJ?

[ivegotabike]

Intensity distribution was touched on in these previous posts

Linear KJ ramp + HR cap: unexpected stability in the green zone

I made an app that is a bike computer running on my laptop and connected to my power meter. The app lets me create allocations for kj in certain watt ranges. Intensity is just daily threshold, vo2, and anerobic. 120, 100, 30 [image]

Linear KJ ramp + HR cap: unexpected stability in the green zone

Again, I am just experimenting but the way I plan to introduce this is through precisely controlled KJ buckets. Multiple intensity “buckets” like 400-500w, 360-399w, 320-359w, and 275-319 (which is just threshold region). Take each block and grow them at a ramp rate per day in KJ. For example, add 1kj per day into 320-360 range, 2Kj per day into 275-319 range. Now these aren’t traditional methods, not at all. Im not claiming its correct. But the issue is that from a first principles point of …

There are no rest days.

There is no try to beat the kJ from the previous month / week: the primary structure of the plan is that today’s work is more kJ than yesterday’s.

[Steve_Balboni]

@R_S1

A question: I’m impressed it’s “just one hour.” I see you don’t set any HR cap like WindWarrior mentioned. Are you basing it only on kJ? I was doing something similar, trying to beat my kJ, or at least maintain a rolling monthly kJ target to exceed each week. But I also give myself a kind of “recovery score” to avoid overloading any single discipline.

So please continue sharing your experiments—it would be great to see new approaches.

Taking advantage of what we’re discussing, I’d like your opinion.

Consequently, in, for example, VO2 max or SIIT phases, my KJ drops – meaning I train harder, but the sessions tend to be shorter or I have more rest days.

How do you deal with this? Even in phases where you exert more effort and need rest days, would you try to beat the KJ from the previous week/month? In other words, would the VO2 max session add more time even if it’s low enough to beat the KJ?

As the other commented mentioned it is simply 5KJ more than the day before. I recently changed that number to 6 per day as an experiment. Yesterday I completed 2 * 952KJ rides for 1904 KJ for the day.

Date	Day	Morning ride KJ	Afternoon ride KJ	Total	Ride 1 ACTUAL Watts	Ride 1 ACTUAL HR	Ride 1 Actual VAM	Ride 2 Actual Watts	Ride 2 ACTUAL HR	Ride 2 Actual VAM	Combine daily w/hr	Porgression	Morning W/h3	Afternoon W/h3	Sample W/hr 7 day m/a
4/1/26	51	835	835	1670	218.17	144.901		207.88	140.38		1.493439801	-0.07	1.505648684	1.480837726	1.562659901
4/2/26	52	840	840	1680	220.5	141.38		252.95	151.82		1.614768076	0.04	1.559626538	1.666117771	1.572305064
4/3/26	53	845	845	1690	210.46	135.63		216.09	135.35		1.57410141	0.01	1.551721596	1.596527521	1.565677373
4/4/26	54	850	850	1700	223.25	135.38		216.02	135.555		1.621311385	0.05	1.6490619	1.593596695	1.56697355
4/5/26	55	855	855	1710	209.74	133.35		209.74	133.35		1.572853393	-0.01	1.572853393	1.572853393	1.583041555
4/6/26	56	860	860	1720	230.62	135.48		219.2	135.505		1.659944277	0.07	1.702243874	1.617652485	1.59243415
4/7/26	57	865	865	1730	211	137		211.01	135.58		1.548206031	-0.04	1.540145985	1.556350494	1.583517768
4/8/26	58	870	870	1740	212.4	137.418		222.07	136.903		1.583801459	-0.01	1.545649042	1.622097397	1.596426576
4/9/26	59	875	875	1750	210.39	137.85		216.7	136.66		1.555826746	-0.03	1.526224157	1.585687107	1.588006386
4/10/26	60	880	880	1760	214.52	137.05		216.32	135.3		1.58193501	-0.01	1.56526815	1.598817443	1.589125472
4/11/26	61	885	885	1770	223.25	137.878		224.84	137.85		1.625116056	0.04	1.619185077	1.631048241	1.589668996
4/12/26	62	890	890	1780	219.48	134.483		209.84	133.1		1.604436754	0.01	1.63202784	1.576558978	1.594180905
4/13/26	63	895	895	1790	203.83	132.478		223.09	134.9		1.596690827	0.01	1.538595087	1.653743514	1.585144698
4/14/26	64	900	900	1800	234.43	139.36		201.37	129.36		1.621762429	0.03	1.682190011	1.556663575	1.595652755
4/15/26	65	905	905	1810	225.48	138.645		226.89	137.964		1.635413164	0.03	1.626311804	1.64455945	1.603025855
4/16/26	66	910	910	1820	223.51	140.37		220.07	140.84		1.577397674	-0.03	1.5922918	1.562553252	1.606107417
4/17/26	67	916	916	1832	229.32	138.596		205.98	128.49		1.62981212	0.02	1.654593206	1.603081952	1.612947004
4/18/26	68	922	922	1844	220.97	135.641		218.44	136.142		1.616767789	0.01	1.629079703	1.604501183	1.611754394
4/19/26	69	928	928	1856	221.43	135.369		222.46	134.68		1.643738729	0.03	1.635751169	1.651767152	1.617368962
4/20/26	70	934	934	1868	220.56	136.51		221.04	135.12		1.625740898	0.00	1.615705809	1.635879218	1.621518972
4/21/26	71	940	940	1880	221.45	134.42		221.45	134.42		1.647448296	0.02	1.647448296	1.647448296	1.625188382
4/22/26	72	946	946	1892	233.85	140.661	838	219.52	134.87	787	1.645440985	0.02	1.662507731	1.627641432	1.626620927
4/23/26	73	952	952	1904	225.59	136.57	814	246	145	871	1.674858827	0.03	1.651826902	1.696551724	1.640543949

Here is where we are for the month so far. over 50,000 KJ in the current 30 day rolling window.

HRV is steady in the 90s in the morning and between rides, most days. Not all.

[Steve_Balboni]

@R_S1

Consequently, in, for example, VO2 max or SIIT phases, my KJ drops – meaning I train harder, but the sessions tend to be shorter or I have more rest days.

I look at zone 2 as something that I want to do daily and look at the impacts at their cumulative kj effects. Just do zone two first and do any intensity at the end of the ride.