I guess you derive your VO2max from your VLaMax and CP measurements according to Maders’ math ?
I guess you took a measurement at rest and before the effort ? So it takes roughly 5 minutes for you to reach peak BLa ?
Moxy gives some additional data, but there’s no compelling research yet on threshold detection with muscle oxygen. I find that you need to use 2-3 Moxy sensors to be able to see how the whole body oxygen supply is behaving during maximal tests. For example, the leg muscles will dexoygenate during exercise, but a non-working muscle (e.g. the lower back muscles, triceps, deltoid) will only start to deoxygenate when the body is no longer in a quasi-steady state, or above “threshold”.
I measured VO2Max with my metabolic cart and you can also estimate it from the last minute power from the ramp test. For VLaMax, I take a lactate measurement after 2-3 minutes of rest (no pedaling) for the pre-sprint measurement. Then I take lactate measurements the first minute and every couple of minutes after the sprint, until I get a good curve.
For MLSS, I use Mader. You need a ramp test and sprint test.
For CP, I use Golden Cheetah and a spreadsheet by Dr. Phil Skiba. 1, 4, and 10 minute time-trials.
For FTP, I use WKO5. I use the same data from CP testing to establish FTP, FRC, Pmax, etc.
Then I try to verify by doing a minimum 30-minute effort at CP.
Yesterday I did a CP time trial at the CP estimate from the 1, 4, and 10 minutes max efforts (215 watts). The CP time trial was 31 minutes to exhaustion. During the time trial, I was at VO2 steady-state according to my metabolic cart (and between ~1.02-1.08 RER), but my blood lactate was increasing the entire test. I think my MLSS (or FTP) is 10-15 watts lower than CP. I’ll need to do another time trial at ~200 watts to see if lactate becomes steady.
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wow ! not everybody has access to a metabolic cart ! I love you way you experiment, I was kinda doing the same sort of things before Covid destroyed my racing endeavors… cf blood and tears – hic et nunc
I am very fortunate to be able to own a metabolic cart to use for training and experiments at home. I invested in a metabolic cart, 3 Moxy’s, and a blood lactate kit just because I am curious about my body and performance (even though I am so very average). I actually spent less on the metabolic cart and Moxy’s than some athletes spend on their bicycles, so I feel it has been a worthwhile endeavor. I still have so much to learn.
I am an engineer by trade and a scientist at heart, so I love collecting data. My current metabolic cart is pretty good, but I would not consider it “laboratory” grade. However, it does seem to provide reasonable data and I’ll soon start adding some additional quality control checks to my routine to try to get the best data.
I guess I should start a blog like you so I can share my experiences and data.
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Anyone know if this is going to work / be available soon?
Hi David.
There’s also a new product in the market.
https://graspor.com/?v=dd65ef9a5579
It monitoring oxygen in muscle and according to the website it’s not necessary to do lactate testing anymore.
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Interesting
Yeah, that is just a muscle oxygen device like Moxy.
Humon Hex and BSX Insight both tried to claim that you could detect threshold with SMO2. Neither of those devices exist anymore. Could be that both Hex and Insight didn’t perform well.
As someone who collects both SMO2 and blood lactate data, I don’t think SMO2 will replace lactate testing. Not for a while, anyways.
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it’s been a long time I have been monitoring this without seeing it released… keep pricking ! ouch !
Continuous lactate measurement …
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continuous ketones … rolling eyes +++
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Hi GarageLab,
How did you get those graphs about VO2Max and VLaMAx?
I try to get that graphs with the formulas that are reported in Article “A Theory of the Metabolic Origin…” of Mader and Heck but I’m always missing something.
Can you help me, please?
Check out Hauser 2014 - calculated vs experimental power paper. They describe the formulas to prepare the graphs and the constants used.
There’s also this python notebook that will give you an idea of how to perform the calculation. I just used LibreOffice Calc/Excel because I’m more familiar than Python. Python is the more elegant solution in my opinion.
Once you figure out the equations from Maders 1986 paper, you can expand and tackle his 2003 paper that I believe is part of the basis of Inscyds metabolic simulator. That one is taking me a while.
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Thanks!
Where can we find this paper?..I’m having a hard time finding it online
Well, I can’t say exactly where to get the paper….
But, there is a particular website where you can get questionable access to journal papers. It’s kind of a science hub, if you will.
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I know of such site, but plugging this link:
Unfortunately, xxxxxxx doesn’t have the requested document:
Hello guys, I’m new with the lactate and I hope to buy one soon. I’m looking for an excel or google sheets document that allows me to directly obtain the estimation of thresholds 1 and 2 with the different configurations (baseline + 0.5mmol & Dmax Modified or other).
Do you have this handy?
Thanks again for sharing.
Check out this app ExPhysLab
I’ve also just incorporated Felipe’s R package into a EnDuRA update to give and LTP1&2 estimate.
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