This week I plan to do an FTP test, but I’m not sure what optimal form I should target.
Is it correct to target the fresh zone?
Thanks
Manlio Perillo
I’d go by how you feel rather than what your current form value is. If you are “too fresh” you might find a long threshold effort too hard. That’s a reason why someone might do openers on the day before a race.
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Thanks for the reply.
The test was on Friday; Monday and Tuesday I was resting, and on Wednesday and Thursday a did a workout at 120W for 1 hour, with TSS of 26.
The test went well, but unfortunately I was unable to express a max effort.
I only can express a max effort during a race.
P.S.
Do you think that reducing the power to 110W for Wednesday and Thursday may reduce the fatigue?
Thanks.
I advise just taking a step back. An FTP test is not like a university examination where you have a single chance to achieve the highest score possible. You might do an FTP test every 4-6 weeks. It’s routine and not something you worry about “failing” or not doing perfectly every time. You are not your FTP.
I know it is hard to do but also don’t clinch so tight with the numbers, dwelling on how many watts and TSS you did on the day(s) before. From my experience these aren’t predicative of how you will perform.
I wouldn’t even pre-schedule the FTP test for a specific date. I would tell myself “I think I want to do an FTP test soon” and then let the days pass until one day I wake up and say, “I feel good, I’m going to do that FTP test today”.
Also note that a well-performed FTP test will give you two numbers - wattage and duration. You want to go hard but you want to go only hard enough so that the effort is sustainable for at least 40 minutes. You aren’t chasing a wattage although your ego will convince you otherwise. You want to tease out the point (the “threshold”) where you can just barely clear the lactate.
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I don’t think doing 110w instead of 120w really matters.
What was the result of the test (your average watts for 20min), and why do you think it was not a max effort eg. you’ve done better before, your HR didn’t get to above threshold, you can do better 20min average power in a race, etc?
Here is the data. On the left is the avg value and in the comment is the FTP and LTHR
2026 Raw FTP and LTHR from a FTP20 Hunter Test
-
date: 2025-12-20
period: preparation
ftp5: 272 # 231
ftp: 238 # 226
lthr: 149 # 142 -
date: 2026-01-22
period: base-1
ftp5: N/A
ftp: 236 # 224
lthr: 148 # 141 -
date: 2026-02-20
period: base-2
ftp5: 265 # 225
ftp: 243 # 231
lthr: 148 # 141
Here is the data from the previous season
2025 Raw FTP and LHR from a FTP20 Hunter Test
-
date: 2024-11-07
type: indoor
ftp5: 273 # 232
ftp: 243 # 231
lthr: 151 # 143 -
date: 2024-12-20
type: indoor
ftp5: 283 # 241
ftp: 254 # 241
lthr: 150 # 142 -
date: 2025-02-07
type: indoor
ftp5: 283 # 241
ftp: 258 # 245
lthr: 146 # 139 -
date: 2025-03-08
type: indoor
ftp5: 290 # 246
ftp: 258 # 245
lthr: 150 # 142
There were some differences between the two seasons, like a new bike or using simulation mode for the FTP test instead of target-powwer mode.
I’m testing what factors are reducing the power.
Thanks
Manlio Perillo
So this shows that you are not as fit this year as 12 months ago, but you’re getting fitter (as measured by a 20min test).
Also, LTHR is just the actual number - you don’t take 95% of the HR - the best proxy is probably the average HR for the last 10 min, due to lag.
And again, the HR numbers are very close for all tests, so physiologically you are working just as hard.
The workout you do the day or two days before won’t impact on this, it’s more the training you’re doing between tests eg are you training to increase your 20min power or are you training for something else and therefore should measure the change in what you’re training for.
You didn’t say what type of 20min power you can produce in a race, so can’t really put into context these numbers, or your max HR.
So this shows that you are not as fit this year as 12 months ago, but you’re getting fitter (as measured by a 20min test).
I forgot to report that at the start of the previous season I started taking beta alanine, but I stopped at the start of summer.
Can this explain the difference in fitness?
As an an example in
date: 2025-03-08
type: indoor
ftp5: 290 # 246
I remember that I got my best effort, and at the end of the 5min I got a feeling of vomiting. This feeling is very rare for me.
Also, LTHR is just the actual number - you don’t take 95% of the HR - the best proxy is probably the average HR for the last 10 min, due to lag
I followed Joe Friel latest book Training Bible.
Do you have some resources for this? I need LTHR for my aerobic threshold workout.
Thanks
Manlio Perillo
Without knowing your training (current and background) it’s not possible to say why the difference - I doubt it’s due to a supplement.
Joe Friel does not use 95% of HR for LTHR - see here Determining your LTHR - Joe Friel - he suggests the average of the last 20min of a 30 min test, hence my suggestion of the average HR for the last 10min of your 20min test.
If you’ve been using the lower HR number for your aerobic threshold work, this may explain a loss of fitness.
In the 5th Edition of the Cyclist’s Training Bible, Friel do suggest to subtract 5 percent when doing a 20 minutes FTP Test.
For reference, the description is on page 50.
Thanks.
The text is this?
Dr. Coggan had a simple solution. Instead of requiring a 1-hour effort, he
proposed doing a 20-minute test and then subtracting 5 percent from the test
results. The result would be an estimate of one’s AnT. Since it’s not an actual
measure of one’s lactate or anaerobic threshold, and since it is done in a field
test, he called the resulting measure a “functional threshold.” The other
important products of his 20-minute test are functional threshold heart rate
(FTHR) and functional threshold power (FTP).
It’s maybe not clear, but it’s a test for Functional Threshold Power (FTP), the number you’re looking for is the power number, the Coggan test is 95% of the average power - the Coggan test isn’t actually designed for detecting LTHR. The link above is Friel’s own comment on that!
Also, the 20 min test isn’t Friel’s, it was designed by Dr Coggan and Allen Hunter, and included in their book ‘Training and Racing with a Power Meter’ - some more info here Hunter Allen Power Blog: What is FTP? where you’ll see this test is all about the power number.
Anyway, this is getting away from your original topic, with the information you’ve provided, you’ve plateaued in your training, probably because your HR training zones are incorrect and not providing enough stress.
The text is this?
Yes, but on my book this text is in page 47-48.
On page 50, column 1-2, Friel says:
Find your avarage heart rate for the 20-minutes test. Subtract 5 percent, and you have a good estimate of tour functional threshold heart rate.
“Subtract 5 percent, and you have a good estimate…”
This advice is targeted to a reader who might be new(er) to structured training. We have these estimates and “rules of thumb” in the vernacular to make concepts more accessible. 75% of your best 1-min ramp interval is an example. It’s starts you out with a FTP number but it’s just an estimate.
Those who are familiar with structured training should not rely on estimates, they should just do the tests outright: for example, real 40+ minute sustained FTP tests, not 95% of 20 minutes. Same with threshold HR. Do a long test and find your real LTHR. Then there is no argument on the validity of the number.
[quote=“briangabel, post:13, topic:122679”]
“Subtract 5 percent, and you have a good estimate…
The FTP test was invented so that it is “easy” to do the test.
I don’t think this test is only used by new ciclists, not sure about professionists.
Additionally, using 30 or 40 minutes will probably not give you the correct value.
And why not try a 1 hour test or a lab, since this should be the golden standard?
Thanks
Manlio Perillo