Hei all you endurance trainers.
Without getting too much into product names and what you recommend for endurance events I’d love to hear what you ACTUALLY FEEL when you take onboard an energy drink or bar.
Over the years I’ve tried many alternatives from home made to purchased products. My latest testing is a product supposedly giving 90g of carbs (ratio2:1 maltodextrin-to-fructose) to 500dl water, and if I am honest, I don’t actually think I feel anything from any of them.
So my discussion question is. Being honest, do you actually feel anything or do you just believe you can perform longer when using them? Would plain water and a bread and jam sandwich be just as good?
My honest answer:
I’ve also tried all kinds of different products but since about 5 years I simply stick to:
- Bottle(s) with 1/3 of regular coke or IceTea and 2/3 of tap water
- A banana, some gingerbread and/or a jam sandwich
Haven’t noticed any difference comparing to all the fancy stuff.
But I must say that I never race. Racing conditions will for sure get you way closer to the limits.
I’m not a racer either, but I’m planning to participate in a 220kms event in June so I was just wondering whether it was just me or whether most of us “weekend warriors” really and truly have need for anything more than what you suggest. After all I suppose an incremental gain on a 6 hour +/- event probably isn’t more than a couple of minutes or am I wrong?
The most important thing on those long events is to regularly fuel up with food and liquid to avoid bonking. Can be chalenging especialy in bad weather.
End of may I have 2 long events, a 175 km and a 240km. The 240km will be my 14th participation. In between all the sweet stuff, a sandwich or piece of rice pie tastes like heaven and keeps me going.
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There are a few factors specific to each person:
- What can you tolerate? Products vary, eg. sweetness.
- What can your body process per hour? You need to train at 90g/h to be able to process 90g/h.
- Whole foods need to be digested first before they can be utilised in the blood going to muscles.
- Weather (extreme hot), and sweat rates, can result in double the volume intake. It’s hard to carry the required hydration of carbs are being invested in liquid format.
- Hydration in bottles, carbs in pockets is a good practice to ensure you are getting sufficient.
Intensity drives demand, so the harder one goes, the more energy needs shift to carbs as the primary source. Duration has an effect, as it’s not possible to consume carbs at the rate of burning energy. A deficit will happen, so it’s important to be topped up before a long/intense ride or or race.
Locally, I use a product that allows 150g in one bottle (2.5 servings). It’s not sweet at all, so is quite palatable, compared to other endurance products. It allows me to use one bottle on an easy 3h ride <200W average power.
If it’s hot, I’ll use another bottle for hydration only (electrolytes). The problem is cost… it’s $27 for 12 servings, so 4.8 rides = $5.62 per ride. I use mostly for long distance events and racing. A single bottle feed is a risk, if I lose that bottle, so will take gels as a backup.
The product I’ve been trying is supposedly only lightly flavoured but have to admit, I don’t think I can use it after the first bottle, it would be too sickly for my taste. The rides have been about 3-4 hours so I’m not sure how my stomach was reacting GI-wise. Dextrose seems less sickly but haven’t tried that on any rides yet.
I understand that whole foods take longer to digest but I was wondering whether a tortilla role cut into bite size bits with perhaps a mix of pate and jam of some sort might do exactly the same albeit over a longer time. And of course a mixture of plain water, energy and an electrolyte drink
Trial and error.
You need to find what works for you.
I find making rice cakes (GCN recipe) just doesn’t cut it. I struggle to find medium grain rice (risotto or sushi), let alone short grain which they use. Then the time it takes to make it, vs. something freely available (whole foods). Nutella on a roll works well, at least in the head.
I think it’s fair to name these as there is a bunch of stuff claiming this, that doesn’t work.
I have had gastric issues from other brands after 2hrs of use.
The 2 i’ve used for multi hour race level performance are by Skratch Labs - Super High Carb Sport Drink (my preference, I used it this past weekend for 7 hours of riding 1 x imperial century (165km) non stop and 1 x 100km race sim) oh and 2 slices of cake 
and Hammer Nutrition (Perpetuem) - I don’t feel as good on this - but it’ll do if there is nothing else available.
The way to view both these is that they are ‘stomach friendly’ and each sip is equivalent to taking a gel.
I target 60-90g/hr of carbs (depending on target pace) - this is the key number to focus on. it doesn’t really matter how you make it up - just bear in mind stuff that tastes great for the first hour can be ‘wearing’ by hour 3.
I’ve made up my own with a nuun tablet, some combo of sugars and slow release carbs. That can be cheaper
If you are going long and slow (and your fat burning adaption is good) then a handful of nuts and electrolyte drinks might work for you.
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A small caveat to this. Whilst logically it makes sense to practice your nutrition and make sure you have no issues, and I would recommend that too, I never train my race intake which is 120g per hour, and I have never had any issues with it in a race (70.3 distance triathlon mainly). I guess I just have a decent gut.
In terms of feel, it is what you feel when you don’t get enough carbs that makes all the difference! I do quite a lot of ultra running too and the difference after 8 hours of good fuelling versus under-fuelling is HUGE.
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Yes, I’ve tried making those rice cakes, didn’t work for me either, just didn’t like the taste. 
If the weather is normal then I drink water. If it’s hot I drink isotonic. When it comes to energy, when exerting less than an hour I don’t eat anything. When riding for many hours, I eat non-dried Iranian dates. They are soft, rubbery and very tasty. They have almost only carbohydrates and fiber and a lot of important micronutrients like potassium, etc.
Dates are a good idea Czarny, I have used them myself but on longer rides I don’t like anything sweet.
raisins is my main staple…
The amount of carbohydrate you need to take in will be individual. Some need plenty of carbohydrates at relatively low intensities (Z2), whilst others have developed their fat oxidation and can do just fine on much less carbohydrates.
I’ve done 200km events on a jam sandwich and slice of cake, plus plain water. I’ve done them on 30g of Maltodextrin in water per hour, plus a single jam butty and a Cadbury’s Crème egg. I’ve done 300km events on a 6 slice meat feast pizza plus a McDonalds meal, nothing in water, and nothing else.
I’ve got a 205km event on Sat. Plan is to start with 100g of Malto in one 750 mL bottle, the other plain water. Then at 40km I’ll each something solid, at 84km I’ll have fish and chips at the coast. At 145km something solid, depending on what I fancy at that point. Then that’ll see me the 60km to the finish.
You certainly don’t need fancy products, in non single stage race situations. But you do need to work out what’s the minimum you need (not the same for everyone), what foods you like, and what might be available on your route and at what distances.
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For harder efforts and more intensive group rides I use 1:1 50g malto/fructo in a 700ml bottle. (homemade)
For easy/enudrance rides bananas and if they are longer ef rice cakes (yt recipe): rice/mascarpone/sugar (i don`t use oil as in original recipe, makes eating them too messy).
For me malto/fructo works great but I have to be carefull not to drink it too fast. Probably my body likes using fats much more.
As for endurance rides, better I eat, much better I feel next day, during the ride I don`t feel any amazing change. But here and there like once a month I forgot to take my food or lack of time makes me ride with some snacks from shops on the track and next day is always hard to manage.
Ps. I schedule my eating patterns so two meals before my harder rides are more filled with carbs. And two meals before my longer rides have more calories in them, so i divide my planned rides calorie cost and eat them partly before and after a ride. It would be hard for me to eat all calories needed for a 6hr ride during a ride.
Ps2. But I like/I`m used to ride with low fuel amounts and I fill much better wit too low then too much.
To be honest Phil, I’m not really sure I need so much to eat and drink either. I’ve done a couple of centuries in Spain in temps around 35-40 with just a couple of water bottles and some homemade flapjack. Last year I did the 220km event with just a home made energy drink and couple of fruit bars from Lidl. I was just wondering if I could do better if I fuelled better. Think I might try rolling something up in a tortilla and see how that works.
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If you use power and heart rate on these rides, you should be able to see whether you were fuelling enough. If I haven’t fuelled enough then it shows up quite obviously in the heart rate trace. For a well fuelled ride my heart rate for the these distance looks pretty steady, the peaks about the same, the bulk in the same range throughout the ride, no decline in average HR. If it tails off, you’ve unrefuelled it. You can spot this visually on historic rides. You can also look at decoupling between power and heart, to see what was going on there.
The other tell tail sign during a ride, is your RPE going up for the same heart rate and / or power. Hopefully you’re fairly tuned into heart rate and matching RPE. If I notice the RPE rising, then it’s usually a sign you need to get more food / drink on board.
Another thing you can do is set an auto lap timer for every 20km, and have some metrics that pop up on the banner that are meaningful to you, such as average HR, power, speed etc. If you notice the metrics declining, then that can also be a sign you need to get more onboard.
But mostly I just tune into my RPE for the effort I’m putting out, and adjust food intake accordingly, if necessary. The numbers can just confirm your feeling.
On a 200km outing I divide it into roughly 40-50km sections. On the bike snacks can be okay, but they get a bit samey after a while. Sometimes you want sweet, sometimes you want savoury and some texture, later on you want food with more moisture content as the palate can get dry. A pit stop every 40-50km for real food can be just what you need, and a chance to stretch top up water etc. If it’s not a race, then stopping for real food and a short off the bike break, is definitely something I’d advocate.
Thank you for that Phil. I’ve been watching my decoupling, post ride, but have just created a data screen and lap alert to break it down. Hadn’t thought of that. RPE I find a bit arbitrary and never really sure how to score myself although I do.
My 220 ride is a Sportif so no time for a meal break but there are fuelling stations along the way so some short stops are possible.
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Hi all,
Whats definitely true for me the difference in performance and perceived pain is massive between beeing well fueled or not.
For me the kind depends on intensity. Low intensity I fuel with dates, all kinds of sweets around the house and bars. Higher intensity I go to gels and sport drinks. At long races also in that order.
What to use depends on taste preference and also budget. I don’t think those marginal differences between brands really amount to much, however some brands I tolerate well (Sponsor) others not at all (Enervit).
Personally I love rice cakes (try different recipes, sweet and savory) and I can eat them all the time, but I also ate rice all my life. Another secret weapen I learned in Colombia: Bocadillos! Guayaba based sugar cubes.
Side note: I have very good experience adding salt in the form of sodium citrate to my drinks as I loose a lot while sweating.
Thats my view
Sina