Looking for opinion/advice on a training methodology I could use.
I’m 32 y/o with a kid and busy job. I’ve been riding for 5 years on road - started by commuting and realized that I liked the effort so started going further. All of this accumulates to around 50-70 hours of cycling over 6 months (Apr-Oct). In the winter I’m practicing over endurance sports (ski touring, cross country, alpinism) without any specific structure either.
For the first time I’ve registered for a race in July 24 with some friends (140km - 3600m elevation gain). That gives me around 5 months of training time before the race starting now.
My ultimate goal is simple: have a good time on the bike for the race (and not suffer for the whole day). While riding at a pace that allows to finish the race in around 7-8 hours if that’s possible.
I have a home trainer as I can’t use my bike to commute anymore because of over obligations.
So far I am able to find time for 3 sessions during the week.
I am doing: 2 x 1 hour + 1 x 2 hours.
My “training” plan is simple: repeat this every months (3 weeks on + 1 recovery week 50% of load). I should be able to extend my training by a couple more hours in Apr-May-Jun. My idea is to apply progressive overload by increasing the total training volume (hours).
I’m just finishing the first 3-weeks block of training that I started in January. And realizing that is does not exactly look like a progressive overload block.
So here are the questions:
Given that I can only allow for low volume (4-6 hours): is there any interest of applying progressive overload, or should I just ride as much as I can and go with it ?
Do you have any idea for creating progressive overload on a time crunch ? Also I don’t want to only do HIIT sessions - I would prefer to have a solid base (like in polarized training).
It looks like I am already at a fitness plateau (almost) ? Is there anything I can do to improve my fitness with the hours I have ? I realize the answer might be no.
Is there any way of estimating how much Watts I will have to output on average to complete the race in a given time (7-8hours ideally) ?
Here is my fitness graph and some stats: weight 70Kg - FTP on hometrainer 20 minutes test: 206W - that would be 2.9W/Kg ? Can I expect to see some more improvements ?
Time is a limitation, so the progression will have to come from (1) intensity and (2) shortening the recovery between intervals (more time in zone). With 3 sessions per week, you would have to do more sweet spot than try polarise your training.
I had one athlete who could only do 3x 1h workouts per week, for 6 months, while training for a 98Km (1300m) event. He bettered his previous time by 26 minutes, as the training was geared around being able to hold sweet spot power for almost an hour (5m warm up only, no cool down).
Thanks a lot for the help Gerald,
So to apply progressive overload:
1: increase intensity
2: reduce recovery time
And I’ll checkout sweet spot training then !
Depending how stressful your life is outside of activity/training time, you have more time for recovery, hence the higher amount of intensity. Your 2 hour ride can be a mix of mostly endurance with some sweat spot efforts.
Hi, I am pretty much on the very same page as yours (except being significantly heavier and older, sadly): 41yo, 82kg, 240W FTP.
In my best case scenario I can train 3x1hrs during lunch breaks (got two toddlers at home).
Hopefully I will be able to add one outdoor ride on Saturday mornings as soon as Spring arrives.
My goal is to enjoy a 1700m elevation gain Gran Fondo in May in the French Alps.
I did a bit of research, and I believe that Z2 training wouldn’t be efficient with so fewtraining hours.
My current training plan currently consists of 3 sessions:
If that is your limit of time availability, yes, do a lot more intensity. Your gauge on how intense, should be what you can recover from before the next training. If you have 2 back2back days, one of them will need to be less intense. If the training moments are more or less equally spread, all workouts will be very similar and hard.
Just be aware that you may hit a plateau in the near future. Some long rides will allow you to brake through that plateau.
would the progression you listed here increase with every session or over time?
e.g: would the first session be 2x15 and the next interval session after that 3x12 or more like 2 weeks of 2x15 followed by 2 weeks of 3x12?
You could progress weekly or bi-weekly. It depends if you’re struggling to complete one of the steps in the progression. That would be an indicator of needing to spend more time on the previous few steps, or just general fatigue.
Easiest way is to try it, and then see if you can do it or not.
If someone can do 20-min at the average power that gives them an estimate of their “FTP” value, including the 5-min all out effort before that, then 30-min at 88-97% (of the FTP value) should be doable as a single interval. Let’s say the person did 250W in 20-mins, it means FTP is 237W. Then 88-97% is 209-230W, but they were able to hold 250W for 20-mins, after doing 5-mins previously at >250W (if done properly).
So starting back at 2x15 or 3x12 should be doable. These steps are probably mentally easier to get the progression started.
Thanks!
A follow up question: would it also be viable to do this person by increasing intensity (going higher up with the % FTP in the range of a zone)
I’m in the school of “riding on feel”, so would recommend starting in the middle of the range.
If you feel strong, then increase the intensity to the upper half of level.
If you feel weaker, then drop the intensity to the lower half of the level.
That’s why ERG mode is not as good as feel, but having said that you can drop the ERG resistance in some applications (Zwift has “bias” on the companion app), and I think others have something similar.
Remember that there is no switch when you go from one power level to another, it’s all a continuum (something that keeps on going, changing slowly over time). You will always be using more than one energy system at the same time.
Hey, you guys are no way the only ones.
I’m in the same boat too but I’m not planning on any big races this Summer.
I just want to ride fast with younger and stronger friends.
I’m 59 yo, 76 kg and FTP 225.
I ride 4 days a week for about 5-6 hours.
I road ride and cross country mountain bike and do each weekly but will vary activity based on temp and weather conditions.
I’m lucky, I can step out the front door and do either activity.
This winter, I decided I needed to try to improve endurance so started doing Zone 2 base rides for Dec and Jan.
2 days of 1 hour zone 2 , 1 day of 2.5 hour zone 2 then 1 day for a Zwift race.
My plan is to replace one of the shorter zone 2 rides with a VO2 session for a month then replace the 2nd short base ride with another VO2 session.
By March, it will be 2 VO2 sessions, 1 2.5 hour zone 2 and 1 Zwift race.
Are all VO2 max sessions equal?
I say in your earlier reply, you suggested a progressive increase.
Should 1 session have 5 min intervals and the other do 1-2 min intervals.
I’ve completely eliminated Sweet spot feeling my race efforts give me thresh hold with sweet spot or tempo recovery.
They don’t have to be, but keeping it as simple as possible is the easiest way.
The progression is time in zone, so from about 12-mins up to about 25-mins over about 6 weeks. The reason for progression is for the ability to adapt and get stronger/faster. If you’re new to VO2 efforts, which are all-out efforts, it’s easier to start short and easier, then progress to longer and harder.
Popular progression is:
3x3m, 4x3m, 5x3m
4x4m, 5x4m, 6x4m
4x5m, 5x5m, 6x5m (this last one is quite hard).
I’ll leave your other questions to the more knowledgeable coaches here.
Your last question interested me (engineer here )
Assuming the course is a loop, the 3600m of climbing is actually over 70km (you end up at the same altitude as you started so (to simplify) assume you’re climbing for 70km and descending for 70km).
That works out to about 5% climb for 70km.
If you want to finish 140km in 7 hours that’s 20km/h average.
Continuing with the 5% grade assumption, let’s say you descend at 30km and climb at 10km/h to get that 20km/h average.
Then the question becomes, what w/kg do you need to climb a 5% grade at 10km/h. This will differ based on what gearing you’re using…
Try and find some 5% grades in your past data and see what power and speed you’re at and you’ll be pretty close to figuring out what you need to do to finish in 7 hours. Obviously a bit less for an 8 hour completion.
Please, if I’m wrong in any of my assumptions, correct me! (After all, I’m a materials engineer… )
Cheers and good luck (in advance!)
Edit: I’m making an assumption that you’re not using any power to descend at 30km/h on a 5% decline. Silly…so your average power over 140km will be slightly higher than your w/kg to ride 10km/h up a 5% grade.
Now there’s a huge engineering mistake
If you climb 70km at 10 km/hr, that’s already 7 hours. And when you descend 70 km at 30 km/hr, that’s 2hr and 20min. Total time 9hr 20min, avg speed about 15km /hr…
What I would advice is to use a combination of your current avg speed on rolling terrain and your VAM (vertical ascent speed). Subtract the sustained climb distance from the total distance and use your normal avg speed on rolling terrain to calculate how much time you will probably spend on the non climbing parts. Then sum all the elevation for the different sustained climbs and divide by your normal VAM, to get an idea of how much time you will do climbing. Sum both climbing and non-climbing time to get an estimate of total time, accounting for fatigue by adding about 5-10%.
I’m not going to say it can’t be done with such low training volume, but chances are that you will struggle hard and not have a lot of fun.
First rule of thumb, is that you do at least the expected event time per week for about ten weeks prior to the event. In your case, you would need to build up to 7-8 hours per week, 10 weeks before the event and then hold that volume for 10 weeks… And try to ride at least one long hard session of 4-5 hours before the event.
If you ride 4-6 hours per week only, you may get the finish line but it will be purely on character. Not a lot of fun involved…
You need to build the stamina to ride 7-8 hours and you need to build the power that enables you to get over those sustained climbs. 2.9 w/kg is not bad, but how long can you hold it and how many times can you repeat that effort?
At you your weight, you should be able to climb at 160-170W around 9-10 km/hr, leaving you some ‘breathing room’. Make sure to be in a group where you can tuck-in on the transition parts. If you reach one of the mountain tops solo, don’t ride, just recover soft pedalling and wait for a peloton to join them. Start the event with one thing in mind: ‘save energy wherever you can’.
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. Rookie mistake!! Bah!