Hi,
Asking a coach, is that a free service or something one will pay to use?
I need help, I feel lost. The more I read and “understand” the more I understand that I don’t understand Also most cycling training plans/thoughts seems to be from an outdoor racing/riding perspective and not indoor Zwift focused (shorter/intense/brutal)
I have only been riding bike for +2 years. 99.999% in Zwift and majority in the past was racing. I also run on Zwift on my treadmill occasionally and also try to do gym work a couple of times per week.
This year, in May/June I was at my peak. Felt superstrong “in my head” and my results and power data was my best ever.
This summer July/August was summer period, a couple of weeks vacation, less intense training.
Another change was that I have more or less not had any form of alcohol during this period.
Now I feel super weak, my race results are crap and my power numbers are very bad. Both 5/15/30/60 sec, as well as longer 5/20/30 min. Maybe it is just in my head? I just stop earlier in the pain-curve?
Basically I was originally a gym guy. Started to run on Zwift during Covid to get some cardio. Loved running on Zwift so much my feet/legs/everything hurted, could barely walk. A friend recommended Zwift cycling to mix up the running, which I did. Now all pain is gone and focus now shifted to Zwift Cycling/Racing, because I love the competition.
My goal is to improve my Zwift Cat-B racing performance as much as possible, keeping in mind my age, light weight, lack or many years of cycling, my phenotype. Keep it real but try to improve.
Anyone can help me sort this out and suggest way forward? or I better go see a Shrink?
I’m not a coach but your story is clear enough to be sure of one thing: you are doing way too much high intensity!
The intensity overdose leads to plateauing, overreaching, overtraining, injury. And not necessarily in that specific order!
What you need is a solid base period with very limited intensity. And by ‘base’, I mean really low intensity. Not low tempo, no, really easy miles.
That’s what will improve ‘cardio’. You’re not doing any cardio, you’re only doing Threshold, Anaerobic and strength work. And your body is now trying to tell you that you need to slow down. Not that you need to stop, just that you need do things way more easy and develop some serious base endurance.
Zwift = high intensity = high gains = fast plateu
No periodisation = no further gains
no mileage = no cycling/running, sad true, endurance sports need a lot of time in low intensity
Problem with Zwift is very simple , it was made to make winter cycling indoors more appealing, but ended as a diffrent kind of cycling spotr with one huge caveat, most people are racing in winter where all other cyclists are resting, recovering, building base.But zwift users want to race in winter and in summer. It is not possible.
a couple of weeks vacation
sorry to destroy your world but you start to lose fitness after just days without cycling, weeks set you back by months
On a positive note, now is a best time (from a zwift racer perspective) to do just what you have done: vacation and rest, proper offseason. And start slowly building base and form for next winter zwift season.
It’s tough to be in zwift and being male… Testosterone takes over. I burned out using zwift and only going for races and group rides. Keep chasing the proverbial rabbit in front of me.
Zwift races and the like is good for every so often (or every month taking the free 25km).
Hence parroting what the others has said… reduce your intensity. Possibly do more Z2 rides…
Thanks for good advice.
When doing low intense/endurance work, is there any correlation to target race times?
If races are typically sub 50 min, should the zone2 sessions be similar duration or much longer, or are they completely unrelated when building base?
If one would inject some intense sessions every now and then during the base building period, does that mean the I screwed up the base building and need to start over again?
For Zwift racing focused base build, how long base building period would be advisable? Would 2-4 weeks be enough or is that too short for any adaptations to happen in the body?
When doing X weeks of BaseBuild, wouldn’t one move into the grey zone aka “junk miles” or would one end up in fresh/transition?
Here is a combined view of 4 cyclist’s data, one of which is mine. We are finishing 12 weeks of base next week, and you can see that some have shown consistency and others not. Some want to be coached, but still want to do their own thing (there are junk miles here because they aren’t recovering enough to go hard enough when needed). While none are perfect, I am certain all 4 will show an improvement when they test next week.
Base is not all about easy riding; it’s about a progressive overload in certain power levels (mostly threshold), with a focus on Time to Exhaustion (TTE), as the event requires it. A large chunk of base is easy intensity, about 70-80% of TiZ spent in Z2 (HR) in a 5-zone model.
Some very general guidelines regarding Z2 sessions:
Minimum duration to be effective is about 70-80min. It has to do with building mitochondria.
Do as many per week as you can recover from. If you can’t recover enough in 24 hr, take a rest day or do a short recovery ride at an even lower intensity.
Try to do one long session per week. If your normal sessions are 80min, you can consider 120min as long
If you add intensity, don’t mix it in your primary Z2 work, do the intensity bouts at the end of your session
A base period is 8-12 weeks. Then followed by one or more build periods of 4-6 weeks before a peak period.
Some things to think about:
Every pro athlete competing in the shorter duration races like Cyclocross, Track racing, etc does long Z2 sessions as part of their training.
In between the lines we can read that you are afraid of losing performance. But the fact that you are now where you are, is the outcome of the way you have been training until now. Why would you be in a hurry to return there?? If you start doing the same as before within 2-4 weeks, why do you think that the outcome will be different??
If races are typically sub 50 min, should the zone2 sessions be similar duration or much longer, or are they completely unrelated when building base?
Depends but for an 1hour race 4h long ride once a week and some 1hr rides are a good idea. You want to build volume to get higher load, and when rising intensity you can decrease volume and make some of the rides harder and shorter.
If one would inject some intense sessions every now and then during the base building period, does that mean the I screwed up the base building and need to start over again?
No and yes at the same time Training is about managing your fatigue. You build progressivly making the workouts harder bc you don’t want to build too much fatigue. And you want to have some base fitness to support harder workouts. For now you can just add some z2 rides (can be even commute outside)
The thing is with a good base you can build a good form in couple months (like 2-4) but it is impossible to build a good form with many hard rides and no base.
For Zwift racing focused base build, how long base building period would be advisable? Would 2-4 weeks be enough or is that too short for any adaptations to happen in the body?
Months, years, depends how good you want to be. By training base you learn your body to be much more effective and it takes time.
When doing X weeks of BaseBuild, wouldn’t one move into the grey zone aka “junk miles” or would one end up in fresh/transition?
It is about progression meaning adding a little more of volume or intensity at the time. You increase your weekly load when doing base by making your rides longer. And you can get even into risky territory for a small bits of time. After you filled up all your time with z2 rides you can increase intensity of some of them to make further progression possible.
I understend junk miles differently, it is just riding without any specific reason. MEaning for example you can commute and it will be junk rides if you just ride without any plan but at the same time you can commute and use it as z2 or recover y rides but then you just keep your hr zones without any hard surges etc.
There is a lot of talk here (and elsewhere the last while) about Z2, without anyone ever mentioning the caveat that Z2 is a huge zone. There is an enormous difference in both the effort required, and recovery time between, the top of Z2 and bottom of Z2. It’s not OK to just say ‘go ride in Z2’
Take someone with an FTP of 300w and their zones defined by the 5Z model based off that FTP. Zone 2 is then165w - 225w. Try 4 hours at 165 watts and see how you get on + recover, and then go try 4 hours at 225 watts and see how you get on. Entirely different rides. Entirely different metabolic responses. Entirely different recovery periods required post cycle. But they are both technically ‘Z2’.
Not all Z2 rides are the same thing. Do not fall into the trap of riding at or near the top of Z2 and thinking that this is a low intensity ride. It is anything but.
Zone 2 is better governed by HR, RPE and breathing. Power is then adjusted up or down to ensure that you are maintaining the time in zone. As the hours tick by, other factors play a role, eg. temperature, hydration, etc., which will (perhaps) require a drop in power (and speed).
It’s not a new thing, it’s just a different description for a well establish training methodology. Joe Friel has for many years called it the aerobic fitness field test (ride at this pace for the duration of your event).
Edit: as you get more aerobically fit, you will be able to ride at a higher power for longer, while still keeping below the HR cap.
Exactly. That’s what I’m saying. So telling someone that riding Z2 is riding low intensity is not necessarily true and is bad advice. The caveat needs to be added that not all Z2 is equal.
I have seen that several times before but do you (or someone else) know why it is better to do the intensity at the end? I like to do a couple of 6-10m climbs in Z4 or Z5 in an otherwise Z2 ride and I tend to do them in the first 2h when I am fresher.
I have never been able to explain this any simpler/better then this guy does:
Bottom line: your body energy delivery system switches (not like an ON/Off switch but a gradual switch-over) way faster from fat to carbs then the other way around.
If I ever had one ask from posters in forums like this it’s to STOP advocating Z2 training as if all Z2 is the same thing. It’s not ok to give people advice telling them to ride Z2, because this zone is too broad and that advice too vague. Riding up near the top of Z2 while remaining under AeT is really only possible for well trained aerobically efficient athletes. Advice needs to be much more specific when it comes to telling people about easy endurance spins.
Very interesting reading. Does that also imply you’d better get some sugar in while going hard at the end of your z2 training, to avoid muscle cannibalizing? And also take proteins only after all sort of training, never before or during?
At the end of the day, it comes down to the purpose of the session, and what you’re trying to achieve.
If you want to build fatigue resistance, it is better to do workouts after doing “Z2” work.
If your main goal is a hard session, eg. some VO2 work, then it’s better to do it fresh.
If the goal is an easy day, then try avoid doing high intensity.
However, short, hard sprints (not all out, but high cadence bursts) aren’t that fatiguing and help with the neuromuscular power. This is good for the development of your fast twitch muscle fibers, for when you need to suddenly accelerate to a change in pace in a bunch. It’s not the same as the all out efforts a sprinter would do.
Doing the intensity at the end of the session being this session of aerobic threshold what it does is to work the resistance to fatigue and physiologically activation of PGC1-alpha for mitochondrial biogenesis, we have different ways to activate it one is with long sessions LIT (the gesture of pedalling, muscle contraction long in time) or by intensity.
Although each case is different, imagine athletes whose objectives are xc, xco, cyclocross races where the starts are practically at the maximum, in these cases if you have to do intensity at the beginning and often with minimal warm-ups.
Also most cycling training plans/thoughts seems to be from an outdoor racing/riding perspective and not indoor Zwift focused (shorter/intense/brutal)
