Torque data source

Hello,

I have some questios regarding torque values:

a.) for my indoor training I use a Tacx Neo (1st Generation) and Zwift. As far as I know, the Tacx Neo doesn’t measure torque (also the original .fit file doesn`t show torque values), but the activity at intervals.icu show torque values. Does intervals.icu calculate torque from power and cadence?

b.) On my bike for outdoor rides I have a Power2Max NGeco with torque upgrade installed and I use a Garmin Edge 1040 to record all the data. This .fit files include torque data ← wrong information. Does intervals.icu recalculate the torque data or does interval.icu show the original data?

Regards

I can answer the first part. Yes, it will derive torque from power and cadence values. I’ve seen a few errors when, for some reason, there’s a power value but the cadence is too low. This happens when starting from a standstill on the smart trainer. For example, power might already be showing 200W, but cadence is still at 5 rpm. This results in an erroneous torque peak, which can be corrected by adjusting the cadence data.

From what I understand Torque is an oddity with sports data tech in that it the thing that is actually measured by the system but never transmitted. Typically a power meter measures torque and cadence and then calculates power from these. It then transmits power and cadence to the bike computer, watch etc. but not torque. Systems like Intervals then have to reverse calculate, using power and cadence, to get torque. The “Power2Max NGeco with torque upgrade” is interesting as I’ve never seen a FIT file with torque in it, so suspect this is just transmitting the original torque values as well as the calculated power value.

What Intervals does if it receives a FIT file with torque I’m afraid I have no idea; that’s one for David to answer.

Isn’t cadence is also calculated?

An accelerometer would measure the change in velocity (rotational speed), which can then provide how many times the object is rotating.

1 Like

Sorry yes you’re right. I think cadence is typically calculated using variations in torque through the pedal stroke.

1 Like

Hi Peter,

wrong information from my side in my first pot. The .fit file doesn’t contain the torque data. What is does is described here:

https://www.power2max.com/de/2024/05/torque/

https://www.power2max.com/en/2024/05/torque/

So for Garmin users is like me it`s “usless”.

I found this article after I bought the upgrade. But the power2max team was so kind and exchanged the torque upgrade with the smoothness and left/right upgrade…nice support!

Regards

Basic physics/math is this simple formula relating rotational torque to power and cadence:

torque = power/(cadence2pi/60))

Thats what WKO5 uses, and the average torque values for an interval match between WKO and Intervals. Hence I believe thats what Intervals is doing.

1 Like

yes. That’s exactly what I use as well.

Con il magnetic day è una cosa normale avere il valore di coppia e il valore che trovi su interval corrisponde al dato che mi rilascia il mio rullo :wink:

Question for @david: can you add crank length to the torque formula?

What do you mean?
Power is
w = kg*m^2/s^3
Cadence is rad/s

The result of that division is kg*m^2/s^2 == Nm ==> Torque.

Do you want to calculate Force (N)?
Torque = Force * crank_length

2 Likes