Mapping 7 Zone to 3 Zone Model Wrt Polarized Training

Training
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I cannot find the right episode, but that’s what he said orally. But he also said that is just ballpark and could be also higher.

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Here are some links for y’all.

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After originally starting this thread, I think I’m going to conclude that an over-emphasis on training intensity distribution has led most of us astray. This is not the most important question - how training is distributed (after the fact) but what is important to do on any day.

There is no such thing as a universally optimal training scheme or distribution. What is optimal is what is needed for an athlete, on one day, in a particular microcycle, within the larger context of their goals.

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As Dr Seiler and many others repeatedly say, the most important thing is consistency while staying healthy.

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I’m talking about the HR values not the TiZ values, ahahaha! But yeah, never forget that 80/20 is sessions!
What I was trying to say is that for me, the 80/20 HR zones are high. Usally, in my zone 5 intervals with 4 min long, I never reach what they “prescribe”. For me they prescribe 189+ HR, I Usually go for 185,6,7… But this was when I haven’t got my powermeter.

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A 4’ Z5 is very, very taxing on the system. Be very careful with those. The body will still be recovering 96 hours after those workouts.
Recovery and the Immune System with Oliver Neubauer, PhD

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I didn’t knew! Thanks Howie! I have a friend and rival at the same time and he does máx 2 min Vo2 Máx. He usually do short shots as he calls it.
He does like:
8x 1min vo2máx, 1’30s recovery

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Thanks for a great collection of links!
Especially the first one is a must-listen for all those people misinterpretting what Seiler is trying to make us understand. Those people should stop laying out TID, TIZ interpretations and stop advocating that any work in Z2 is wrong and whatever other bulshit is hitting us almost daily.
Listen carefull to this podcast and what Seiler is telling us. It bassicaly says that the most efficient training is something so simple that you don’t even need a training plan. Be consistent and do 4 training sessions below AeT before doing one above AeT. And when you do that hard session, make a combination of intensity/duration that is challenging. Depending on the training phase you’re in, that can be VO2, but it could just as well be Tempo or Treshold. Hell, it can even be an extremely long endurance session during your initial base phase!
But I guess people don’t like “simple”…
The only thing wrong about this system is the 80/20 name. That leaves to much room for interpretation. It should be called 4 easy/1 hard session and leave out any guess regarding duration of that hard session. If you experience it as a hard session, it WAS a hard session. So now take the time to recover from that hard session, not by lying on the couch but by doing 4 easy sessions and make sure you’re ready to go hard again after that. The best way to ensure you keep up the consistency, is doing enough low intensity.

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I’ve read that somewhere as well.
All one needs is just 2 diff ERG workouts per week.

  1. HARD Session ERG file
  2. Easy Z1/Z2 ERG file
  3. rinse and repeat
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@MedTechCD, you’re welcome. Agreed, the convo in the first link is one of the very best. And yes, the basics are very simple, but the mind continually looks for and creates complicated. That’s not to advocate reductionism either. Clarity is so simple that it appears boring so people run right by it and miss its depth.

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I agree with all that you said!
I’m doing like
Monday: Easy (45m to 1:30h)
Tuesday: Efforts (2 to 2:30h)
Wednesday: Endurance (2:30 to 3h)
Thursday: Easy (45m to 1:30h)
Friday: Endurance or Efforts ( at least 3h with or without efforts)
Saturday: Long Endurance (with efforts if I didn’t did on Friday) (3:30 to 5h)
Sunday: Passive Rest

Am I doing to much?

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Depends on your history and how you built up to that total load. If you feel good and have no problems doing the efforts, I would think you’re coping well. 12-15 hrs a week is quite a bit but not an exception for an experienced athlete. Just keep listening to your body and throw in a rest week on regular bases.

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I usually do 3 week on 1 week off. I started 8 years ago, moreless. 3 years with training with low volume overall, and now 2/3 years with more volume and 2 efforts a week.
On base I do Tempo and Sweetspot, Build some FTP and weeks before races start with vo2máx. Then I continue my competing calendar with 1 effort FTP another vo2 max in a normal week.

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I agree, it could be better labeled.

There’s a well known (and respected) coach, with his own podcast, where he mentions the 80/20 principle. The example given is a 25 hour week, and they (there are two on the show) say that 20% = 5h of intensity; which many know is a lot.

Instead, the intensity would more than like be 2.5-3h as there is recovery between intervals would be at low intensity. So the TIZ is closer to 90%/10%, which Seiler also mentions when he explained what 80/20 is when looking at TIZ.

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Yes, 90/10 TIZ for a healthy, well-trained athlete with many years of foundation work. For anyone else the TIZ ratio is closer to 95% Z1/5% Z2-Z3 (3 zone model). Dr. Seiler has pointed this out several times as well. For a beginner, metabolically unhealthy individual, or for someone suffering/recovering from any kind of illness or injury then the ratio is closer to 99%/1%.

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Of course; base work is the foundation for the rest of the work to build on top.

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To be clear, I wasn’t in opposition to you or what you said @Gerald. :+1: I just think that the point of foundation and maintenance of metabolic health, strength and stability can’t be clarified enough. Be patient, keep working on the basics …or get broke. :call_me_hand:

It’s like a house. If you don’t care for the roof, the foundation and the outer layer then it doesn’t matter how nice one tries to dolly up the inside; the whole thing will rot.

So many people assume health when laying out percentages and programs. IME (and according to stats), health is hardly the state of affairs.

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That’s why I hate the TIZ targets :sweat_smile:
When in Base phase, the hard sessions are, at least for me, longer lower Z2 (out of 3) efforts. While in build phase, I switch to upper Z2 efforts (SS and Over-Under). In Peak, I may do VO2max (Z3).
The time distribution easy/hard can’t be the same for workouts that different in intensity.
A hard Tempo workout in base could be over 2 hours. A VO2max in peak will rarely be more then 30min. That significantly changes TID… but still one hard session, as intended. At least, that’s my interpretation after listening to Seiler’s info for hours.

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The vo2max seeks a cardiac stress to achieve these adaptations, post analysis would have to check those series of one minute how long has been above 90% of your maximum pulse to see if it has produced that cardiac stress that is sought with the vo2max, I think in my opinion that series of 1 minute at vo2max will not produce the internal adaptations that are needed, remember that the watts is an external load to which our body has to respond internally.

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Clear as mud :grinning: