HRV, Trainer apps

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Hi everyone,

just checking the sentiment here. Consider 2 brand new Android apps on the PlayStore:

  • One that measures HRV, based on science, and pushes automatically the measurements to intervals.icu
  • One that lets you use your intervals.icu planned workouts on your indoor trainer

How keen are you to pay 10$/€ each for that, no subscriptions?

Thanks!

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On the latter, https://auuki.com is free

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Thanks! Didn’t know about that. Seems nice and well done.

The key difference here is privacy.

The new app is Android native, you can run it offline, no login/register required (your data are not shared with anyone), and you manage your own connection to intervals.icu.

You can also manage your local workout library offline.

That’s it.

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I don’t have any need for another trainer app because Auuki, BikeTerra (free tier), RideCave and InCyclist are all usable for free and give me enough variance.

For HRV, I would consider, if you let the user decide how the value is send to Intervals. RMSSD, as is, can’t be used for correct CV, you need a log version of HRV. HRV normalized and in log version is what I actually use. But I need quit a bit of workarounds with external tools to get the HRV value from Kubios, calculate the log-normalized value, and send that to Intervals.

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Thank you for the insights @MedTechCD .

So, as far as I understand, you are using an HR chest strap sensor (not opting in the camera measurement the likewise of HRV4training, right? why?), take the raw RMSSD value, take its log (which formula? what do you mean by normalized? against historical data?) and write it manually or put it somewhere and push it to intervals, right?

Thank you again

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When it comes to HRV, I’m probably one of the pioneers here on the forum…
I have always used a Polar H10 strap and I’m so used to it after ~6years of daily measurements that it doesnt bother me at all.
I tried another app with ppg measurement through the camera, but my Samsung S20’s camera seems to be not suited for a correct measurement.
Your questions regarding RMSSD/log/normalized, come over as strange for someone busy developing a HRV app.

HRV4T uses 20 x Ln(RMSSD) because that results in a number in between 0 and ~100. Can in some extreme cases be slightly higher then 100. All CV references in literature are based on a natural log value of RMSSD. The multiplier has no effect on CV but the log has a huge impact.

Normalized HRV is RMSSD/MeanRR, both from the same measurement. It takes into account that a higher HRrest automatically reduces RMSSD because there’s less room for variation.

My routine now:

  • Measure after bathroom visit with Kubios app connected to Polar H10 in a sitting position
  • Screenshot the Kubios result on my phone and OCR
  • Copy that OCR’ed text to the Intervals calendar comment
  • Run an MS Excell template (scheduled task) on my laptop (which is anyway started every day) to get the Intervals comment field. Parse the text to an Excell table and send the parsed results to the Intervals API to populate the defined Wellness fields. The Excell file has VBScript to send curl commands and is mostly automated.
  • This breaks when Kubios updates the app and changes the text layout
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Thank you for the insights @MedTechCD

When it comes to HRV Score from HRV4training, do you even use it or something similar? is it useful?

Thanks!

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I’m not using HRV4T, but I’m using the same method. RMSSD is the input to the HRV score which is 20 x Ln(RMSSD).
RMSSD, as is, is something that is useful in research, just to make sure that the starting point is the same. Research applies a logarithmic conversion to the RMSSD and works with that. HRV score is different from app to app and thus can’t be compared or mixed for research.
EliteHRV for example also has a HRV score but that is scaled to 10. They simply use 2 x Ln(RMSSD).
In a nutshell:

  • RMSSD is raw data and any app giving access to that number can cooperate in research
  • HRV score is for the good apps always a logarithmic conversion of RMSSD but not all apps openly tell you what the exact conversion is. If HRV score makes use of other inputs, like training stress, sleep quantity/quality, etc, it is simply unusable for comparison to others.
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Nice explanation, very kind of you.

Basically, HRV Score is a way to make RMSSD more similar to what Whoop gives you… I feel.

Or there’s a science behind I don’t know.

Thanks again.

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I’m a regular reader of Marco Altini blog and content. Been using HRV4training app for a year at some point, and then the Dropbox export stopped working, never been able to get it fixed so I stopped the morning measures. I look on occasion at Garmin nightly HRV stats but with a bit of distance as I know it’s not the best measurement method. The protocol that MedTechCD shared looks quite heavy, I’m surprised there’s no automatic method with all the technology and AI these days. I surely need to read more on HRV and understand the science. If there’s an easer way to get Kubios data into Intervals, I’d be curious to get the data fed into Montis AI agent and see what would be the recommendation there for daily/weekly training advice.