eFTP/eCP based on efforts longer than 30 mins

Feature Requests
1

Is it possible to estimate FTP/CP based on best efforts longer than 30 mins? At the moment you can change the minimum duration for estimating FTP/CP but not the maximum

(I seriously hate doing max efforts between 6-90 minutes)

2

Change the minimum time to 1800 sec (30 min)

3

But that doesn’t use your best performances >30 mins

4

What it does is that it will discard best efforts shorter then 30min. But Intervals isn’t doing any eFTP calculation for durations over 30 min…
That leaves you with nothing.
If you hate short all-out efforts, your best bet is to have the setting at 20 min - 1200sec.
Or you do a real full hour of power and set it manually.

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5

Indeed, that’s why I am requesting to have intervals.icu make eftp calculations for any duration over 30 min too (if that gives meaningful data )

6

I second this.
40-70 minutes is enough to use that power as the setting for FTP.

The “e” in eFTP is estimate.
The short effort modelling method came about to assist people estimate their FTP as it might not always be practical to do a sustained/evenly paced effort every few weeks.

7

I’ve said this before and it’s the hill I will die on, but FTP in itself is not all that useful a number to base training off. The more I think about it, the more redundant it seems. You can track your daily/weekly/monthly load but other than that I wouldn’t pay too much attention to it.

  • Nobody does an hour long effort. Even if they did what does it tell them? It tells nothing other than what they can do for an hour.
  • Any shorter efforts designed to estimate an FTP tell you nothing other than what you can do for 8, 12, 20 minutes. If you’ve a big anaerobic capacity and ability to go deep for short periods you’ll get a hugely overestimated FTP
  • No FTP number is going to tell you where you’re efficient/strong or inefficient/weak.
    -No FTP number is going to tell you how aerobically efficient you actually are.
  • Maybe someone can do 340 watts for an hour. The same person might be hitting Z3 Tempo HR at 170 watts because they have no aerobic base. Calculating their zones then off an FTP of 340 means all their ‘easy’ rides will be far too intense.

Just my 2 cents. I would pay little attention to FTP. It tells you very little tbh. You can’t come up with a single number that covers your whole training range.

Do your easy spins easy and your hard sessions hard and forget about FTP.

Edit - Do 3 min ramps, increasing 20 watts at a time. Start easy. Plot your HR from the 2m45s point in each interval. You’ll see 2 distinct inflections. These are your aerobic and anaerobic thresholds. Customise your zones accordingly.

7 Likes
8

Or do the Wahoo SufferFest 4DP test where you do a lot of high intensity work prior to a 20 min effort. This “washes away” all anaerobic contribution to your aerobic effort (which normally inflates your FTP) making it your “naked” or “sustainable” aerobic power. Some anaerobically inclined people have “FTPs” that are sweet too high because their ramp test has been skewed by their anaerobic capabilities. The goal is to set your zones so that when you are doing aerobic work it is purely aerobic and not partially anaerobic.

Additionally, to big-up SufferFest (Neal Henderson) performing their test allows you to determine your sustainable aerobic, maximal aerobic, anaerobic and neuromuscular power. Also the power curves on Intervals.icu are your rider profile and can be used to set your zones. You are your “curve” not a single number.

2 Likes
9

The protocol for the 20-min FTP test includes a 5-min, all out, effort to also take any anaerobic contribution out the number one gets after 20-minutes.

Some other “experts” will argue/debate that the 4DP is too much in one session.

Either way, the number is never static, and which protocol one follows, stick with it for the future too. Then you have something to compare to.

1 Like