Am I overtraining or is it likely another cause e.g. Long Covid?

You can see your weekly hours, load and other information in Intervals.

  1. Click on your calendar, then on the weekly summary (mine is on the left for the purposes of this screenshot);
  2. It will open the summary information with an additional option, under DETAILS;
  3. You can see time in zone, as time and %, as well as other information.

You can do this by week, or you can do it by period by simply changing the dates on the TOTALS screen.

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Many thanks for your comprehensive reply.

I have attached the CIL graphs that you asked for and broken them into the various disciplines. The first one is the period around the month of HMs that I have discussed in other posts. The swim was presumably curtailed by lockdowns I think hence that suddenly disappears.

The second is for the recent 3 month period with the cliff edge exhaustion illustrated.

I cannot disagree with the sensible periodisation that you outline & confess that my drip drip approach is sub-optimal & probably not advised as you demonstrate.

I think that I will go back to having particular events on which to focus my training loads & rest periods even if they are not what particular motivates me. It will discipline me into periodising.

The confounding factors (though perhaps excuses) to me doing that are partly that rest above e.g. 2-3 days has always left me lethargic rather than reinvigorated. Perhaps that is just an addict avoiding cold turkey. As I say my subconscious definitely over rules my physically sensations. Hence I tried to use objective rather than subjective data.

The HM month surprised me in that my RHR seemed pretty good & trending down throughout & also after that intense period, & remaining within the 0.75 SD band, though I accept in late March it did go haywire. So perhaps Feb was just the RHR lag before the reality with hindsight. That likely was the reason that I carried on doing lots of Z3 despite reducing the total weekly load. The fact that my HR remained within “normal” i.e. coloured band was why I increased my weekly loads back up & the Mid-March RHR does indicate that I needed to rest longer , which I subsequently did (in my defence). Looking at the HRV (with hindsight & the knowledge I now have from the Intervals advice my post has generated) I can see that my HRV did sound the alarm bell earlier than my RHR. I suspect that I dismissed that as my HRV data record was still building as I only started collecting it Feb. Again I know this might sound like an excuse!

In terms of intensity I can see that afterwards I was doing too much Z3 running still so the recovery period was no such thing really. But again that was me trusting the objective (RHR & Form %) which were good over subjective (feelings that my subconscious can sabotage) & compounded by not being confident in HRV.

As you can see from the last 3 months I was trying to achieve a cyclical pattern in terms of weekly loads. I do hold my hands up to the swimming being too consistently intense but (again in my defence) did reduce the run & ride intensity, at least in March. With hindsight I admit that the evidence indicates that increasing the run intensity at the same time as maintaining the swim intensity is perhaps the point of failure. The RHR did start to get erratic (due to the PVC rate (premature ventricular contractions - see my first post in this series) becoming regularly 1:1) two weeks after my run AND swim were both predominantly in Z3.

So I cannot deny that over training might be the cause & I do need to respect Z3 chronic fatigue risk more than I have been.

The exhaustion is likely pseudo-heart failure as my RHR is pretty much 30-31bpm & so cardiac output likely 60-70% of previous. I am a bit short of breath which could be that or a host of other reasons e.g. hayfever or Covid/Long Covid. But as you say the exact cause is perhaps moot to the reality significant rest is likely needed & then a radical change in my training methodology following your excellent example.

I do feel like a teenager getting their homework marked with all this in depth analysis of my graphs & excuses. But in fairness this perhaps does prove that experienced teacher-led school lessons work better than attempting “home schooling”! And as much as kids hate exams, the timing of them does help with a structure of gradual progression, intense learning/cramming, the event & then brain recovery afterwards for a while once they are done.

In terms of graphing your ride/activity times it should be straight forward by using the options in my example graph settings. That will then give you time in each.

Weekly TL graph

If you wanted proportion of time in each then you would tick the “Bars stack to 100%” tick box & the left hand scale becomes 0-100%.

Weekly TL graph2

I presume that is the problem that you meant.

Many thanks once again.

Just to set the record straight in case that tweet was referring to this post (timing implies that it does). Whilst I might have been doing too much Z3+ for the volume, it certainly was not 80-90% for the last 2 months or previously.

Most intensive “HM month” period

Recent period leading up to the acute exhaustion

It was not referring to you @David_Bannister .

I’ve been open and honest with you throughout. If I had more to say I would have done so in this discussion thread.

In that case I apologise. It just seemed very coincidental timing. I do appreciate the time & effort that you & others have given me with your advice. I will take it on board & change my training methodology once recovered.

Accepted. No worries, mate.
I understand that it can seem like coincidental timing; it’s a common theme that I’ve seen countless times. My wording in that tweet was intended to hopefully grab the attention of someone who has been in denial but might just be ready for an ah-ha moment. You are past that point. :call_me_hand:

(It was also meant as a tongue-n-cheek reminder to myself. :blush:)

This might also be of interest when it comes to the discussion of numbers vs. “How do you feel?” when it comes to recovery and fatigue.

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I always remember something Dr Shawn Bearden said: The most sensitive device and highest processing capability (millions of data points per second) is our own neurology.

“We evaluate millions of datum points collectively and in the context of our emotions, motivations, goals, and other executive-level circumstances to formulate perceptions of our immediate situation considering our past and our desired future. We subtly balance the importance and value of each bit of data in the context of everything else going on in our lives, from how much quality sleep we got last night to the degree of our motivations for the task at hand. And, we employ this system with iterative, instantaneous, and precise calibrations and recalibrations on the fly.”

…We just need to learn to listen. :hugs:

Generally I would agree & only now is Quantum Computing getting anywhere even vaguely close to the power of the human brain. Furthermore it will be a long time before our fitness algorithms get the chance to benefit from Quantum Power.

But for addiction that good neurology tends to break down somewhat & immediacy takes priority. I probably have a Z3 addiction probably as Z1/2 subconsciously feels a bit tame for benefit, knowing that I am struggling to do enough Z5+. I know the theory (aerobic conditioning is key to sustainable performance improvement) but Cognitive Dissonance is pulling me from the right path. I need to tame that. Perhaps training plans & periodisation will act as my nicotine patch whilst I build up & learn to self awareness & self care skills.

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I do follow Alan Hutchinson but he seems to me to rarely come to any implementable conclusions despite his articles & research being very interesting. I did buy his book Endurance which has probably not helped my over training risk.

My watch is near worthless at the moment in terms of dictating day to day loads due to my HR issue even if the algorithms did consistently hold water. And over a longer time span my HR irregularity (less acute than now but still generally irregularly irregularly for >5yrs) means that watch data would only be reliable in terms of longer term trends (e.g. 60d averages) which is in fairness what much of the literature does advocate anyway.

I will persist with measuring & recording HRV though not let it dictate my plan. It does seem more responsive than RHR. Respiratory Rate is an excellent & under-rated acute (& chronic) health indicator but in my experience is too fallible when consciously measured i.e. without a watch/equipment to do it automatically. In the hospital as soon as people realised that it was being measured then the rate changed & it became meaningless. Hence we pretended to take a manual pulse (rate & regularity) but actually often counted respiration instead.

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Shh, don’t give away our tricks. :wink:

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@David and @everyone else: the latest episode of That Triathlon Show has an excellent discussion of the problems with measuring training load. Basically, the conclusion from the experimental evidence seems to be that intensity [measured perhaps as percentage of max power for that duration] seems to predict the strain induced by training far better than do measures that combine intensity and duration [such as TSS].

Hours and hours at 60-70% of HR max or FTP have a FAR lower impact on our bodies than do shorter periods at 85-90%. Of course, you need intensity if you want to go fast for short periods; but if you want training adaptations + efficiency + form, then long is low is that way to get these with less impact on the body.

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I will have a listen. Many thanks

Same research referenced in the article by Alex. Hutchinson I linked above. Be interested to listen to the take on the podcast.

I still say if your body is saying nah whilst any number looks okay, I’d still go with the nah.

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Agreed, @Phil.

Interesting today: the fitness chart showed “High risk zone”, but the legs felt recovered from yesterday. Until I started on the over-unders, that is. Then the number started to appear in the legs! Bailed.

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Speaking of “high risk” and the stress of any Z2+ (5 zone model) = >LT1.

Stephen Seiler clarifies polarised based on 25 years of further study.

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Interesting I hadn’t caught up on his latest thoughts but it’s kind of how I’ve treated it. Either I’ve been in that Z1 or I haven’t. Interestingly my HR distribution comes up as pyramidal in intervals.icu though the hard days are mostly the Z3 variety.

I quite like recovery spins on days my legs feel heavy. The legs often feel lighter by the end. Thus my recovery days are about heavy legs, where as my rest days are more about that creeping fatigue.

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A polarised power model often shows up as a pyramidal HR model because HR lags. By the time HR begins to catch up to the same zone as power the interval may be closing down. What to do? Look at both. As Dr Seiler repeatedly says, triangulate all data.

An example to illustrate Howie’s point (except Intervals short changed me on the Incline % - it was honestly 8%)

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